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New black diamond offsets


Original Post
Mike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 10
slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,097

i find it really odd that they look like they are available through various retail websites, but i don't see them on the bd website.

Mike Piper · · Saint Louis · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 71
slim wrote:

i find it really odd that they look like they are available through various retail websites, but i don't see them on the bd website.

They're there now:

https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/climbing-cams-stoppers-nuts-hexes/offset-stoppers-BD225227_cfg.html

Mike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 10

BD had individual ones there before. They have a habit of filling orders to retailers and not keeping many/any for themselves in my experience.

Forever Outside · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Feb 2017 · Points: 235

I'll stick with my DMM's

Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 456

Imitation over innovation - a tried and true business formula.

Mike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 10
Forever Outside wrote:

I'll stick with my DMM's

That's useful. Jk it's irrelevant unless you have also climbed with the BD version. If you have, please tell me more...

Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 456
Mike13 wrote:

That's useful. Jk it's irrelevant unless you have also climbed with the BD version. If you have, please tell me more...

Really? And so you think there's enough difference between the two to substantiate said irrelevancy?

Señor Arroz · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 10

Set of 5. Sizes 7-11. Sounds familar. At least they changed the colors.

I'm sure they'll work great. Offsets are the shiz.

Mike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 10

Never used the BD ones as I haven't had the chance. If you have used them please comment about your experience. I really doubt that the poster intended to imply he had experience with both. Looking at the picture (which I'm just guessing is all you are doing as you have provided nothing to the contrary) I would agree they look similar to the DMM ones; however, small changes in the angles and in the alloy type can have significant impact on the performance. I believe these are things that are difficult to judge without using the piece. 

Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 456
Mike13 wrote:

I would agree they look similar to the DMM ones; however, small changes in the angles and in the alloy type can have significant impact on the performance. I believe these are things that are difficult to judge without using the piece. 

I don't see enough geometric changes to conclude there would be any significant impact on performance and the allow has little to do with their performance. 

It's more a case of it just being a sleazy thing to do as opposed to actually innovating.

Beean · · Canmore, AB · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 0
Healyje wrote:

Imitation over innovation - a tried and true business formula.

R&D at Black Diamond is well know to mean Replicate and Duplicate. Check out their new X-Dreams and Laser Speed Lights.

Timothy Carlson · · Flagstaff, AZ · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0
Beean wrote:

R&D at Black Diamond is well know to mean Replicate and Duplicate. Check out their new X-Dreams and Laser Speed Lights.

The DMM offsets are a replication of the original HB offsets though, albeit with some improvements. 

jg fox · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 5
Beean wrote:

R&D at Black Diamond is well know to mean Replicate and Duplicate. Check out their new X-Dreams and Laser Speed Lights.

Their "laser speed lights" look less dependable then the Petzl version; plastic turn crank looks flimsy.  It would be one thing to copy and make improvements, whole another thing to copy and make a worse version.

They get a pass for the Reactor, at least the pick is thicker compared to what the X-Dream uses.  Don't X-Dreams have a reputation for breaking grips?

Colonel Mustard · · Sacramento, CA · Joined Sep 2005 · Points: 1,185
Timothy Carlson wrote:

The DMM offsets are a replication of the original HB offsets though, albeit with some improvements. 

That duplication was openly copied though, as I recollect. DMM bought the rights? I’m sure somebody knows.

These do look remarkably like the DMM/HBs. I mean, I guess cool?

Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 456
Timothy Carlson wrote:

The DMM offsets are a replication of the original HB offsets though, albeit with some improvements. 

DMM bought the rights and those weren't improvements.

jg fox · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 5

I think the last innovative product black diamond made in terms of equipment would be the Cobra tools (maybe the whippet but this is a climbing forum).  Can't even recommend Cobra's at full MSRP, Grivel's quantum's are nicer.

Jim Turner · · Lakewood, CO · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 295

The DMM’s are great and not much reason for BD to innovate, I guess? If it ain’t broke, why fix it?  

Besides, what more can you do to nuts that DMM didn’t already do?

Beean · · Canmore, AB · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 0
jg fox wrote:

Their "laser speed lights" look less dependable then the Petzl version; plastic turn crank looks flimsy.  It would be one thing to copy and make improvements, whole another thing to copy and make a worse version.

They get a pass for the Reactor, at least the pick is thicker compared to what the X-Dream uses.  Don't X-Dreams have a reputation for breaking grips?

I suppose every ice tool has a rep for breaking somewhere. Nomics and X-Dreams have had head twisting/rattling issues, not sure about the handle.

The thin pick is what makes some like Cassin tools, good for delicate ice, not so for mixed. 

Parker WEbb · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 115

Haven't looked into any specs on weight, but the BD ones felt a little heavier than the DMM ones... Haven't place any of the BD ones though.

Señor Arroz · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 10
Colonel Mustard wrote:

That duplication was openly copied though, as I recollect. DMM bought the rights? I’m sure somebody knows.

These do look remarkably like the DMM/HBs. I mean, I guess cool?

DMM bought the entire HB company.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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