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Fixed Gear Forum Follow-up Survey


Original Post
Southern Nevada Climbers Coalition · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 0

At a recent forum hosted by the SNCC on fixed permadraws, it was determined that more information should be collected from our members and from the local climbing community. This survey will help the SNCC gain a better sense of climbers’ attitudes about this issue. The survey has two parts: The first part is designed to provide us with background information about our members and local climbers so that we can to better serve the climbing community through our various projects. The second part pertains to the fixing of stainless steel permadraws. 

The last question is open ended, so share your thoughts with us please!

Many thanks!

http://www.southernnevadaclimberscoalition.org/fixed-gear-survey/

dnoB ekiM · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 2,930
Southern Nevada Climbers Coalition wrote:

The second part pertains to the fixing of stainless steel permadraws. 


Who makes stainless steel permadraws?  I have never seen them available in stainless.  

John Wilder · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2004 · Points: 1,535
dnoB ekiM wrote:

Who makes stainless steel permadraws?  I have never seen them available in stainless.  

I want to say they're sourcing from Climb Tech. I don't think they're stainless, but I could be wrong.

dnoB ekiM · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 2,930

I expect so, but the post and survey mentioned stainless.  Climbtech's standard fixed draws are not stainless.  The nicest fixed wire bones out there now are made by Camp, in my opinion, but they, also, are not stainless.  Not that I think stainless is necessary for permadraws like it is for bolts/hangers, but I am interested in who is making them, if they are. 


Gregger Man · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 1,280

I just contacted Cable Tech (local rigging supplier in Denver) to see what they might charge to make some stainless perma-draws. Kong makes a stainless gym carabiner with a welded captive eye. 7x19-strand 7mm or 8mm with stainless thimbles would last a long time. Not sure yet what they would cost. Probably would put red LocTite on the quicklink or swage it directly to a glue-in in order to keep the thieves at bay.

Greg Barnes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,786

Thanks Greg for looking into that! Like Mike & John said, I don't know of anyone making stainless steel permadraws.

As to the survey - if piles of permadraws were removed, a community survey is pretty useless. You need to talk to whoever removed them. Survey results will be meaningless if that person goes back and pulls the new ones. Swaging directly to hangers or glue-ins is defeated in a second by bolt cutters.

John Wilder · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2004 · Points: 1,535
Greg Barnes wrote:

Thanks Greg for looking into that! Like Mike & John said, I don't know of anyone making stainless steel permadraws.

As to the survey - if piles of permadraws were removed, a community survey is pretty useless. You need to talk to whoever removed them. Survey results will be meaningless if that person goes back and pulls the new ones. Swaging directly to hangers or glue-ins is defeated in a second by bolt cutters.

There have been some conversations about this, but so far, the person who took them is still unknown. I suspect that you're right, though- anyone who is industrious enough to take four crags worth of draws will likely not be put off by loc-tite if they've decided that it is their personal mission to remove perma-draws from red rock.

Gregger Man · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 1,280

stainless price quote: $14.58/each for 1/4" wire rope and $17.50/each for 5/16" wire rope. 

That's for an 8" length with two eyes with stainless thimbles and copper swages, tho. Total price would depend on the quicklink and carabiner cost. 

Southern Nevada Climbers Coalition · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 0

Results from our Fixed Draw survey have stopped coming in, and we will be sharing the results soon!

In the meantime, please take a moment to share your thoughts in this open survey about visitation, recreation, and management in Red Rock from Great Basin Institute. Our feedback can influence the future of management in the park.
http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/4035233/RRC

From GBI:
"Visitation at Red Rock Canyon National Conservation Area, near Las Vegas in southern Nevada, has been steadily increasing for years. These increases have led to visitor and vehicle management issues, especially around the main scenic loop drive, and could impact visitors’ recreational experiences and the natural and cultural resources present there.

The Great Basin Institute is helping Red Rock Canyon managers assess these issues and potential impacts. Your feedback is needed to help understand trends in visitation and recreation experiences in the NCA.

There are six open-ended prompts/questions in this survey. You may provide as little or much detail in your responses as you prefer. 

If you have any questions, please contact Will Rempel at wrempel@thegreatbasininstitute.org or Chad Kooistra at ckooistra@thegreatbasininstitute.org.
Thank you for your time and insights!"

Southern Nevada Climbers Coalition · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 0
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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