patagonia grade V11 vs nilas vs fitzroy

Patagonia is telling me different than what your being told.  That’s a significant difference and something I hope they could figure out for sure. 

Yeah, they should really get their story straight and put it on the website like everyone else.

I did find it a little suspicious that with the Fitz Roy's spec of 22.3oz/8oz of down (which is comparable to other jackets in the category), they somehow managed to make the Grade VII with more face/butt coverage and added 3.7oz of extra down  (11.7oz fill as alleged compared to 8oz) while only increasing the weight of the entire garment by 1.5oz (Grade VII weight spec 23.8oz). Both of the jackets use essentially the same weight nylon shell. Makes me wonder but maybe these space aged construction techniques are worth a few ounces...

After reading Max Neale's blog postings and seeing how he swears by almost everything Patagonia, does he have any affiliation with Patagonia?  Not that there's anything wrong with that; they make great stuff, but I think it would be worth knowing. 

Max doesn't seem very interested in engaging beyond dropping a link to his blog, maybe he's out adventuring off the grid though. We'll get some more of his thoughts in that upcoming BackpackingLight report I suppose. 

Montane confirmed to me that the 300g fill was for a size Medium Deep Heat, so presuming similar sizing it's actually got more down (probably ~30g) than its local competition from Rab and Mountain Equipment who spec a Large at 300g.

jdejace wrote: Max doesn't seem very interested in engaging beyond dropping a link to his blog, maybe he's out adventuring off the grid though. We'll get some more of his thoughts in that upcoming BackpackingLight report I suppose.

Montane confirmed to me that the 300g fill was for a size Medium Deep Heat, so presuming similar sizing it's actually got more down (probably ~30g) than its local competition from Rab and Mountain Equipment who spec a Large at 300g.

That's a great point, something I hadn't thought of.  However, the tag that was attached to my men's large Deep Heat states 300 grams.  Maybe that's just a generic hang tag they use for the whole size line. 

Yeah I suspect that's just the spec tag that they all come with regardless of size. 

I picked up a Grade VII out of morbid curiosity. I got an orange one on eBay because this year's colors are silly. The details are nice - good hood w/ face coverage, good butt coverage, good zipper (a button snap at the bottom would have been nice), good cuffs. The loft in shoulders thing...I'll reserve judgment until I actually wear it in truly cold weather. It's not a place I typically get cold so I'm not sure it's actually an issue.

I put a little hole in the shell the first day. "Durable" lol :-) It's no worse than any other lightweight down parka but it's nothing special IMHO. There's only so much you can do with lightweight nylon. In fairness it was the "weaker" 20d, not the fabled Houdini fabric (which I'm equally skeptical of but whatever). No idea what happened, I'm sure it snagged one of the sharp toys or a tree branch - it's definitely bulky and can't get out of its own way, but hey it's warm.

Overall it's a very good down parka, but I have a hard time seeing how it's a good value at MSRP even if it takes a month to sew one. Maybe I'll appreciate it more when it gets proper cold out, but I doubt it's head and shoulders above other box baffled parkas in this class with similar amounts of down fill that are available for hundreds of dollars less.

I'll also say what I've said dozens of times - at the end of the day it was a sopping wet mess and I would rather have had a synthetic jacket if I were staying out. Down is mostly fine for day trips but I can only stuff one of these parkas into my pack wet a handful of times before it's almost useless. I've tried fancy shell materials, water resistant down, down/synthetic blend - it all gets wet for me ice climbing in the Northeast. I could bury my Dually in the snow, take it out, put it on and not get hypothermic. And when it gets a hole feathers don't come spilling out. YMMV.

Additional Grade VII observations:

- the hand pockets are "just ok" in terms of functioning as hand warmers (my only use for them personally). The down between your hands and the outside is NOT box baffled, and there is no fleece liner for additional warmth/keep the down dry when you stick your wet gloved hand in there.

- the zipper seems to never catch the draft tubes (impressive) when they're dry, but it's not 100% when things get wet

- the shoulder loft, again still can't say if it's significant in terms of performance, but it's remarkably unimpressive. I have a cheapish MB Frostline next to it and I think it might even have more loft in the shoulders (the rest of the jacket no contest, Grade VII is loftier). 

jdejace wrote: Additional Grade VII observations:

- the hand pockets are "just ok" in terms of functioning as hand warmers (my only use for them personally). The down between your hands and the outside is NOT box baffled, and there is no fleece liner for additional warmth/keep the down dry when you stick your wet gloved hand in there.

- the zipper seems to never catch the draft tubes (impressive) when they're dry, but it's not 100% when things get wet

- the shoulder loft, again still can't say if it's significant in terms of performance, but it's remarkably unimpressive. I have a cheapish MB Frostline next to it and I think it might even have more loft in the shoulders (the rest of the jacket no contest, Grade VII is loftier). 

I love the status updates, keep 'em coming! It's supposed to be cold again here in the northeast this weekend.  Hopefully, you can get out & give it a test run.

I'm a fan of my nilas, but it might be worth checking out the mountain equipment K7 jacket. It seems to be pretty similar to the grade Vll. Also you might like the Mammut meron, it has a super thin face fabric which I could see being an issue, but is 900 fill and super compressible.

I've known about the British manufacturer "Jottnar" for some time, but I forgot they made a big belay jacket, too.  The Fjorm Parka: 295 grams of 850-Fill, hydrophobic goose down in the men's large at just shy of $600 ($590.)  There are cheaper options out there that perform really well, but this provides yet another choice for a big belay jacket.  Not that many come in 850-Fill and use treated down.  Too bad their colors suck this year.

Max's full review on BPL for those curious (membership required)

https://backpackinglight.com/lightweight-winter-down-parka-reviews-and-state-of-the-market-report/

EB has a 50% off sale again. Is a Patagonia Fitz Roy at $270 a better deal than the EB Peak XV at $250?

They're different jackets. The Peak XV is warmer, a pound heavier, relatively bulky, expedition worthy. That's basically the same price so I would choose the jacket that fits your goals best, not which is a "better deal."

better deal is probably the wrong wording. better choice maybe. but I take your point on choosing the jacket that fits my goals.

For what it’s worth, I contacted EB customer service for specs on their jackets. These are both for a size large.

Men's Peak XV Down Jacket
Weight - 2 lbs 9 oz
Fill Weight - 381.5 grams (13.5 oz)
 
Men's Downlight Alpine Jacket
Weight - 1 lb 9 oz
Fill Weight - 220.19 grams (7.8 oz)

It looks like the Downlight Alpine Jacket compares more closely to the Fitz Roy than the Peak XV, but both seem to have pretty good specs for the price at 50% off.

I also reached out to Patagonia customer service re: the HyperPuff Parka. I was told it was discontinued and being replaced by the already existing Fitz Roy.

Happen to know if that Downlight Alpine is box baffled? 

I am still shocked patagonia made a bouldering specific puffy. 

I don’t know, sorry. It doesn’t mention online and customer service didn’t mention it either. Based on that and the price I’d guess it’s sewn through, but I don’t know for sure. That’s a good point though, based on construction and having slightly less fill, the Alpine Downlight may not be as warm as the Fitz.

Mike W wrote: For what it’s worth, I contacted EB customer service for specs on their jackets. These are both for a size large.

Men's Peak XV Down Jacket
Weight - 2 lbs 9 oz
Fill Weight - 381.5 grams (13.5 oz)
 
Men's Downlight Alpine Jacket
Weight - 1 lb 9 oz
Fill Weight - 220.19 grams (7.8 oz)

It looks like the Downlight Alpine Jacket compares more closely to the Fitz Roy than the Peak XV, but both seem to have pretty good specs for the price at 50% off.

I also reached out to Patagonia customer service re: the HyperPuff Parka. I was told it was discontinued and being replaced by the already existing Fitz Roy.