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Lets constructively discuss Newbie Trad videos.
King Tut wrote: I agree. If it is on YouTube it is fair game. Maybe post a link into the YouTube comments to the this thread? They might learn something that will prevent them from making a terrible mistake. |
King Tut wrote: OP, not to bash on you, but you’re not a guy to debate things with, at least on MP. I really enjoyed your “slings are out to get ya “ rant on the clove hitch anchor tread. |
Fehim Hasecic wrote: Sokay guy :). This is not debate club about who is and who isn't comfortable belaying off single slings. This is about clearly identifiable newbie errors that are accidents waiting to happen. There shouldn't be any nuance here. Like this one. See if we can find the mistake at 0:06? |
King Tut wrote: Whats a ""jesus piece/redirect"" ? |
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I think the main problem with inexperienced climbers messing around with GoPros is that the camera amounts to one more distraction they don't need. |
Martin Kepner wrote: Its a way of clipping the anchor with the lead line as you leave the belay to (slightly) reduce the fall factor if the leader falls before his first piece. Instead of falling directly onto the belayer/belay device the lead line is re-directed through the anchor. If the leader then falls, the belayer gets pulled into the anchor and his counterweight reduces the force on the leader and belay system. The utility of this is debated in various threads because it does introduce other problems (belayer and device sucked into anchor). The point here (in the posted vid) is that it is set up in such a way that if the leader were to really need it before the first bolt, at the most dangerous (highest) point above the belay on this pitch, the rope would cut across the belayer possibly injuring the belayer and compromising the belay. |
King Tut wrote: There's always nuance if you analyze it enough. Whether the nuance is worth thinking about is another question, though. And if there isn't any nuance then is it even worth discussing in the first place? Is that a sling clipped to the top bolt and then the lower bolt is clipped around the sling (as opposed to clipped into the sling)? Only very experienced and/or quick and efficient climbers should be attempting Epinephrine. |
King Tut wrote: Newb trad leader question here...at 8:10 the climber somewhat awkwardly sets a low cam behind a relatively thin and cantilevered fin, rather than higher and behind a thicker & less cantilevered part of the fin. Why? |
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This thread seems like a good idea. And, IMHO, is different from the recent dead thread about n00b mistakes that degenerated into "ha ha, s/he sure was scared." A thread of pre-accidents that didn't have to end up in the AAC yearly review is a good idea. (I haven't the faith in the MP community to think it'll work, but optimism is cool.) As a point of order, can we agree to include a time reference for each posted video? I'm not sure a quick shot of a bad anchor warrants listening to 10 minutes of heavy breathing. |
Fehim Hasecic wrote: Few things... 1) he's not asking for a debate, but a constructive feedback/teaching thread - hey, what's that, an olive branch??? 2) re: other thread... dude has climbed with legends in the sport, has seen more than most of us have (even what a young climber doesn't want to hear), and worked as in industry insider on the gear side - his points may actually have some merit... 3) the other thread actually went off track when way less experienced climbers started with criticism and followed up actively seeking to prove him wrong, situationally (see #2) 4) yes, he's way better to debate/learn from in person 5) what's up with the "Tut seeking" posse from CO? (Take that olive branch and beat someone with it...) |
JonasMR wrote: You know, that's actually a really good point. In the realm of workplace safety, the Heinrich model suggests that for every major injury in the workplace, there are 29 minor injuries, and 300 near-misses. (incidents that could have resulted in an injury if things had gone slightly differently.) The main takeaway is that if you want to improve workplace safety, you don't just focus on the actual incidents that resulted in injury, you also need to address the hundreds of near-misses. Change your safety culture, and realize that every near-miss could have been an injury but for dumb luck.cut down on those, and the workplace will be much safer. I'd imagine it's similar in climbing; for every fatality, there are dozens of minor mishaps, and hundreds unsafe situations that didn't happen to result in an incident. (For instance, plenty of people who have back-clipped a draw have lived to tell the tale, but that doesn't mean it's a "safe" practice.) YouTube is chock-full of examples of climbing practices that are less than ideal. Let's use that as an opportunity to learn. |
eli poss wrote: The belayer is only clipped into one bolt with another sitting right next to it unused. |
Scott E wrote: This guys mistake was ever leaving the ground. |
AndrewArroz wrote: The first time I saw this I noticed the belayer catches the climber with both hands "up" on the rope while using an ATC. Only after "catching" the climber near the ground does he move the brake strand into brake position. (This is why I hate "pull pinch" and "palm up" belaying... because stuff happens fast and it takes time and instinct to pull the brake.) I'll defer on evaluating the climber for the moment. |
Eric L wrote: The high hand position is there to make the subsequent high-fives easier. |
King Tut wrote: I'm seeing 3 bolts. 2 placed horizontally and then 1 lower bolt that's off to the left a little bit. It looks like they have a sling clipped to 1 of the 2 horizontal bolts and then not using the other horizontal bolt and then they have a biner clipped from the lower bolt around the sling. I would have either used all 3 bolts in the anchor or used 2 bolts for the anchor and clipped the 3rd as a jesus piece, depending on the situation. |
ubu wrote: Its a poor choice compared to others just higher but he may have been a little sketched. He has his hand on a jug that he should just move up on and place from in better spots deeper in the back, or continue to the huge ledge just higher. If he was sketched there (seems a bit) then he is making a judgment call to stop there and use a less ideal spot. There is no telling how expando that flake may be... |
eli poss wrote: It **might** be clipped into something there but (to be fair) I just can't tell. The Topo shows 2 bolts at that anchor. And the potential third is in a weird place....If that something (down and to the belayer's left) IS a bolt, its got a weird-ass hanger I've never seen and (to be fair) what if any attachment is not clear. There is no biner on it and I can't decide what if anything it is...). Always clip all 3 (if there are 3). Use the left most for the jeebus piece so there's a chance the rope will miss you in a fall. |
King Tut wrote: Yeah, it's kind of ambiguous, but to me it looks like a staple U-bolt or some other kind of glue-in. And then a ring or quicklink connected to that and biner clipped around the sling. |
