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Questions on 2:1 hauling systems


Original Post
Yannick Gingras · · On the road, mostly Southwest · Joined Sep 2015 · Points: 10

In the Hauling Ratchet with the zed-cord system as described by Pete Zabrok, Mark Hudon, and probably many others, there is a top pulley to redirect the effort as one goes down during their squat motion.  Without this redirect, the system would be simpler, have the same mechanical advantage, but the effort would be applied during the upward motion.  Why not do that?  Obviously, letting the gravity help you is probably a good thing, but does it make a big difference in real world scenarios?  Is it significantly more miserably to apply the effort as one pushes up with their legs?

For the same system, Mark describes the importance of pushing the ascender down as far as possible with every downward motion.  Would clipping something just heavy enough, like a small set of nuts, to the inverted ascender make this unnecessary? 

I can't wait to put this new knowledge in practice!

Auden Alsop · · Baltimore, MD · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 0

IMO:

Definitely keep the top pulley, I find it much easier, and not much more of a hassle. I don't know if clipping something heavy to the ascender would help drop it, I would test that yourself, but I doubt it. You need to give it a decent push to set it down. I have somewhat more limited experience with a 2:1, but have definitely used one, and these are my opinion. I'm sure Mark will give his pretty soon

Daniel Hamilton · · Iron Range, MN · Joined Oct 2017 · Points: 0

You definitely want to work with gravity. Say your bag weighs 180 lbs and you weight 100lbs. If you lift with your legs on the up stroke you are lifting 190lbs, neglecting friction in the haul system. You also use your muscles as you lower yourself back to the reset position. If you use the change of direction, you are lifting 100lbs and gravity lifts 90. You are getting a bit of a rest during the down stroke.

Moof · · Portland, OR · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 25

Bad haul on Mideast Crisis, less than body weight Jerry rigged with a 3:1 and still not moving, as the rope kept getting sucked into a notch and was passing over a pretty good angle, while the bags were snagging on shit below.  Get a bag of tricks, and know when to send someone over the side to kick the pigs into submission.  Bring beer too.  Next time I did this we just ferried loads up the 4th class.  Live and learn...

Mark Hudon · · Lives on the road · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 415

Good on you for using your brain and thinking, but don’t reinvent the wheel. At this point in 2:1 evolution, no one is going to improve upon it more than a fraction of a percentage. Putting a weight on the lower rope grab can help in certain situations but it’s not going to end up giving you the optimum pull. It’ll never get the Zed cord as tight as you really want it.

King Tut · · Citrus Heights · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 430

Go do some walls with Mark's system and play around with it if you want and then trying anything else you see fit....and see if you have improved on anything and let us know...after a few el cap routes with varying hauling problems to solve you'll have your answer.

For now I would go with the advice of the guy that weighs 120lbs. Us fatties can get away with being inefficient hauling, small humans, not so much.

A bad haul up to The Block above Mammoth was so terrible I just dead lifted the bags while my partner captured the progress. Talk about 1:1.....nice ledge though. :)

"Pass the Pitons" Pete Zabrok · · Oakville, Ontario · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 645

What, pray tell, is a "Hudon Hauler" ? 

Embarrassed to say · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 5

Well I don't know who you are, but that's the guy that invented it....Mark Hudon!!

King Tut · · Citrus Heights · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 430

Embarrassed to say wrote:

Well I don't know who you are, but that's the guy that invented it....Mark Hudon!!

You should. He pretty much has as much wall experience as Mark. :)

Embarrassed to say · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 5

"Pretty much"...but certainly not AS MUCH. 

The guy's still stuck on talking about peeetons...(shoulder shrug)?

King Tut · · Citrus Heights · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 430

Embarrassed to say wrote:

"Pretty much"...but certainly not AS MUCH. 

The guy's still stuck on talking about peeetons...(shoulder shrug)?

Get back to us when you've done something like 75 El Cap routes like Petey....We'll be waiting a long time :P

(if you aren't just trolling me and Pete).

Embarrassed to say · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 5

I've done .85 El Cap routes.

And it's *(Pete and me)*

PosiDave · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 65

Google Makita skyhook Rescue system. Just buy one of those.


If you want to hate life don’t use a redirect. Hands down the worst thing you could do for any serious hauling.

King Tut · · Citrus Heights · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 430

Embarrassed to say wrote:

I've done .85 El Cap routes.

And it's *(Pete and I)*!

Well, .85 is none. :)

And if you knew me, I would tell you the grammar is what I say it is, as English is a living language :P...

Embarrassed to say · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 5

So Mathematics AND English....??

I'm done here.

My apologies, Mr. Tuttle.

George Foster · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 0

Despite it being a living language, in that context it would be "Pete and me." 

Marshall Ralph · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 0

Dear Embarrassed to say: You're wrong. It's "Pete and me." Objective case, because Pete and me are the objects of the verb "to troll": "If you're not trolling Pete and me." Right? I'm a grammar weenie, but when it comes to hauling, Hudon and Zabrok are worth listening to, to put it mildly.

Embarrassed to say · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 5

I stand corrected and edited. 66% of us were wrong.

" Easiest way is to take the other person out of the equation.

Here's a photo of (Dave and) me. (You wouldn't say 'a photo of I'.)

But

(Dave and) I went to the shops. (You wouldn't say 'Me went to the shops'.)"

eli poss · · Durango, Co · Joined May 2014 · Points: 456

Embarrassed to say wrote:

I stand corrected and edited. 66% of us were wrong.

" Easiest way is to take the other person out of the equation.

Here's a photo of (Dave and) me. (You wouldn't say 'a photo of I'.)

But

(Dave and) I went to the shops. (You wouldn't say 'Me went to the shops'.)"

Actually 66.666666667% of you were wrong. Or, to be more precise, 2/3s of you were wrong. ;)

Mark Hudon · · Lives on the road · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 415

I didn’t invent it at all. I believe Chongo did. Pete taught it to me. I maybe refined it a little but my main contribution was popularizing it by explaining it best. 

 

Yannick Gingras · · On the road, mostly Southwest · Joined Sep 2015 · Points: 10

Thank you for sharing so generously from your experience, everyone.  I am traveling without my wall gear for the next two weeks, but I will definitely rig a hauling ratchet as soon as I am back and get a feel for the system using heavy rocks.  I can't wait to try in the Yosemite as soon as things warm up!

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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