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Cedar Rock Falcon Closure?


Original Post
Cory Tracy · · Fletcher, NC · Joined Oct 2017 · Points: 0

The Falcon Closure is in effect for the North Face. Does this also apply to the Southern Main Wall. It read the "Morning Glory Portion" which I'm not familiar with because I've never climbed the North Face Wall. I thought about hitting the Main Wall soon but don't want to disrupt the birdies "or even come close to disrupting them". Any help would be appreciated. This is only my second year climbing in NC so still learning the areas.

Jason Eberhard · · Atlanta, GA · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 66
Chris Massey · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 5

Check Western Carolina Climbing Association Facebook page. A post with details and lots of comments and clarification on this issue. 

Cory Tracy · · Fletcher, NC · Joined Oct 2017 · Points: 0

Thanks for the help, Guys. That cleared things up. 

. · · The souf east · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 730

I hate these things, they thrive in cities and are no longer endangered, the whole closure thing seems to bee poorly managed and it looks like some left over bureaucracy to me, disagree if you like but I am entitled to my opinion.

stolo · · Shelby, NC · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 191

Here is a map of the area. I do not think Stone Depot is part of the closure. 

Photo Credit to Mike @ http://grounduppublishing.com

Brian Payst · · Carrboro,NC · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 10

Stone depot isn’t in the closure and we are working with the forest service to clarify the description for Cedar a bit. I’d like to take a minute to thank the biologists who do this work. Defining closures is challenging and they do the best they can with a limited budget and personnel. They have been excellent partners to the CCC and a few months of having to avoid some sections of a few areas really isn’t much to ask. Disagree if you like, but my opinion is actually informed. 

. · · The souf east · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 730

My opinion is also "actually informed"


sources:
http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150626-the-predator-ruling-uk-city-skies

https://www.worldwildlife.org/species/directory?direction=desc&sort=extinction_status

In addition to my personal experience of being at a wall(not climbing) which was technically closed and zero birds.

I actually really like these birds, just not the closure program, I wish climbers had an advocate for getting past what seems to be an under funded antiquated system.

Brian Payst · · Carrboro,NC · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 10

 Both the Access fund and the CCC have been working with the forest service closures for some time now, with the goal of limiting them to the necessary areas only. You’lll note that victory wall is not closed this year, that was due to climber-forest service communication and collaboration (versus name calling and blaming on public forums). There’s quite a bit of advocacy going on. 

The closure notices are not due to the emdnagered species act and just because some birds can tolerate disturbance does not mean that all can. The NC closures are part of  the species recovery efforts and Peregrines are listed as endangered in NC by the state wildlife resources commission. 

The closure notices are often lifted early if birds fail to nest.  I have no idea where you were where there was a closure and no birds, but  it’s also quite possible they were there  and you just didn’t see them. 

. · · The souf east · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 730

bird politics aside, I feel you conduct yourself rather poorly for the position you are in, many of your statements are more inflammatory than helpful, understanding or explanatory and its a public relations disservice to your organization. This thread is one example but there are numerous other instances which come to mind.  I honestly wouldn't say this if it was the first time or even second time.

I don't understand the need to quash differences of opinions.

I know I don't feel any better about this situation, and I know I have no desire to support the CCC.  This doesn't seem like it should be your end goal.

best of luck

.

Ezra Ellis · · Hotlanta · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 0

Brian thanks for all you have done to improve access and climber- ranger relations .

. · · The souf east · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 730
Ezra Ellis wrote:

Brian thanks for all you have done to improve access and climber- ranger relations .

He is litterally helping to limit access then he is a jerk about it(or other things) to climbers who dont agree with something that is not funded or managed properly plus the birds are doing fine.

cant speak for ranger relations but his relations with climbers has been quite poor and im not going to just let myself be abused by someone who given his position, should be better than this.

Brian Payst · · Carrboro,NC · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 10
. wrote:

He is litterally helping to limit access then he is a jerk about it(or other things) to climbers who dont agree with something that is not funded or managed properly plus the birds are doing fine.

cant speak for ranger relations but his relations with climbers has been quite poor and im not going to just let myself be abused by someone who given his position, should be better than this.

My apologies anonymous internet guy if by trying to explain things I have offended you, that is certainly not my intention. If you feel you can do a better job at volunteering with the CCC, please do step up and contribute. 

. · · The souf east · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 730
Brian Payst wrote:

My apologies anonymous internet guy if by trying to explain things I have offended you, that is certainly not my intention. If you feel you can do a better job at volunteering with the CCC, please do step up and contribute. 

here is my perspective,

these closures are silly.

(undisclosed) walls are closed for years at a time with zero birds.  I know this for a fact.

all of cedar was open last year and there was a bird at the northern aggression wall.  This bird did fine last year but this year it will be closed.




I regularly watch brian aggravate situations on the internet and make it far more tense than it needs to be, comments are often condescending and inflammatory and I expect better from a public figure head.  Yes, you have offended me with the way you talk to me so condescendingly and you have now spoken this way to a number of other people that I have respect for your diplomacy is poor at best.  I do not believe for a second that it is unintentional it has happened far too many times, almost every one of your comments in this thread have a negative undertone.

Just my perspective from my seat on the internet.

exibit A.  above is yet another comment that is intentionally inflammatory.


At this point I do not agree with many of the ethics that the CCC upholds and will not volunteer there, I don't want trails improved or climber kiosks or any regulations on bolts or how your climbing style should be all NC old school ethics where you might die cause the FA party did it this way... yadda yadda this shit is 30 years behind the rest of the country. I wish they would just donate the lands to the state or feds and let them manage it.  I just want the nature that is there at these public lands without any strings attached. I literally want nothing.  

but I am not allowed to have this perspective because I am "not informed"  says the guy that is ~4.5hours away from any of this stuff in the city.  But by all means ignore me tell me I am wrong and beat up on me, I certainly have no knowledge of this situation being ~45min away.  

I like being anonymous on the internet because I can voice my opinions and i think climbing politics is usually a crap show with fuel on the fire by brian whenever someone disagrees with him, don't you have anything better to do than try to change the opinions of every no name climber on the internet?  you literally are not going to be able to do this, these regulations are silly and you can fight that if you like but there will always be people that disagree, the least you could do is shrug your shoulders and say 'sorry its just the way it is" but instead you are condescending about it.

Brian Payst · · Carrboro,NC · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 10

OK. shrugs shoulders, “that’s just the way it is” and we can agree to disagree. 

. · · The souf east · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 730

see, not that hard to not have an attitude

Mike Reardon · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 1,169

As Brian noted above, CCC board members have been working with the Forest Service biologists to clarify the new peregrine closures. Specifically with Cedar Rock, the Forest Service reached out to the CCC to have more clarity on where closures should happen in relation to routes. They could have just said "Cedar Rock, Closed" but thankfully didn't. They now realize that writing "Morning Glory Portion" was also a mistake and this will be revised. We have been communicating on a (nearly) daily basis in order to establish the proper closure that keeps the most climbing open and protects this species. Things are looking good and the closure should be pretty climber-friendly. I agree that it is too bad that we have closures of areas, but on the flip side, there are only 12 known mating pairs of peregrines in NC. It would be sad to see them go and human interaction does limit their ability to procreate. Also, with Victory Wall, we (CCC) asked them to monitor the cliff over the past few years to see if there was any activity. There could not find any, therefore the closure was lifted. This opening was due specifically to positive climber/ ranger relations.  Cheers y'all! Let's keep it up. 

We should know exact closure boundaries regarding Cedar this week. 


Mike Reardon · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 1,169

On another note, I am hard pressed to find another person who dedicates more selfless hours and has had more success with expanded access than Brian P.   Thank you Brian!!! 

Billy Danger · · Asheville, NC · Joined Mar 2005 · Points: 242

I like Brian a whole lot, and am grateful for his efforts, but . does have a point. When you say things like, "Disagree if you like, but my opinion is actually informed" you should probably expect some backlash. That being said, ., just because you live in a city that's a little closer, it doesn't mean you have a better understanding of the situation. The fact is, and this comes from someone who used to get paid to monitor raptors, Peregrines don't like people climbing all over their 'hood. They aren't pigeons. If you really "like" the birds as you've claimed, then you should probably let them be and show them a little respect. 

And it's stupid. NC has miles and miles of low-angled granite slabs for us to climb. Listening to people whine about how they have to follow the minimal restrictions in place is taxing.  

Brian Payst · · Carrboro,NC · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 10

Like I said, I didn’t intend to offend anyone. The falcon closures impact a very small percentage of the climbs in NC. Shortoff is a great example - all of the most popular routes remain open during the closure. The Looking Glass closure is the same, the impacted routes don’t see a lot of traffic compared to the ones that stay open. Like many things, the closures are a compromise.

We should also remember that the land managers read these forums and it can impact their thinking (I have been told so in person).  Having spent time meeting with those folks, talking them out of making changes that would negatively impact climbers because of someone else’s actions (a fixed anchor ban in Linville, for instance), I’m just a bit less tolerant sometimes of griping about a policy that has been around for years and in reality has a low impact on climbers. 

Ultimately, as climbers we have to work with the federal and state land managers, who’s mandate is multi-faceted and challenging. Sometimes that means we don’t get our way, or everything we want, but overall we have a really great partnership and a lot of opportunities. 

Jason Eberhard · · Atlanta, GA · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 66

Thanks for the stewardship of the area.  I love Cedar.  Anonymous people are usually the most offended and critical of others on the internet.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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