Preferred method of backpack coil?

Hey guys,

So I climbed with a guy who guides and realized that my improvised way of BSing a backpack coil was much less efficient than what he did (which I can’t quite recall).  From googling around, it seems like there are variations on two main methods, much like with regular coiling: single strand or dual. What is your preferred method and why?

For reference, here’s an example of a double strand:

https://www.climbing.com/skills/the-perfect-backpack-coil/

Single Strand:

https://www.climbing.com/skills/tech-tips-ropework-1-single-strand-backpack-coil/

definitely double strand (i like to double strand coil from the middle, it is faster and still flakes out pretty easy).  whenever i climb with someone who uses the single strand on any sort of remotely involved descent it loosens up on them, and they end up tripping, knocking rocks down, etc.

occasionally, if i know i will be going back and forth between roped and un-roped, i will use a kiwi coil.

My climb venue is long multi-pitch. Venue can matter regarding preferences here.

At the end of the climb, we get onto the walkoff faster with the two-strand method though I start coiling at the rope ends rather than at the middle.

Once in a while, if we are just moving over to a rap station, we do a modified version of the single-strand method but add steps to keep the two halves of the rope easy to separate for tossing one half for rap (other half usually still has to be threaded).  Honestly, though, if it were up to me, I would still double-strand coil.

I have scant experience with leads after the single-strand coil.  Still, one of my gym partners prefers this ... but once in a while it still gets tangled on lead.

Edit to add: With two-stranded coiling, I always reflake for the 1st lead of the next route. Maybe I’ll have to experiment with not flaking after two-stranded coiling from the middle instead of my usually starting from the ends.

slim wrote:

definitely double strand (i like to double strand coil from the middle, it is faster and still flakes out pretty easy).  whenever i climb with someone who uses the single strand on any sort of remotely involved descent it loosens up on them, and they end up tripping, knocking rocks down, etc.

occasionally, if i know i will be going back and forth between roped and un-roped, i will use a kiwi coil.

I'm pretty sure you could see no difference between a double-strand coil and a single-strand (with both strands for carrying). They look and function the same when carrying.

FrankPS wrote:

I'm pretty sure you could see no difference between a double-strand coil and a single-strand (with both strands for carrying). They look and function the same when carrying.

It's all about the finishing wrap up. :-)

Bill Lawry wrote:

It's all about the finishing wrap up. :-)

Bingo!

FrankPS wrote:

I'm pretty sure you could see no difference between a double-strand coil and a single-strand (with both strands for carrying). They look and function the same when carrying.

if you read the OP's post, it is comparing a double strand (with two strands for carrying) with a single strand that is used for carrying.  trust me, they are quite different....

slim wrote:

if you read the OP's post, it is comparing a double strand (with two strands for carrying) with a single strand that is used for carrying.  trust me, they are quite different....

I understand, but I'm pointing out that you can have the benefit of a single-strand coil (not flaking) with the carrying ability of a double-strand coil. That's all. Sorry if I was unclear.

FrankPS wrote:

I understand, but I'm pointing out that you can have the benefit of a single-strand coil (not flaking) with the carrying ability of a double-strand coil. That's all. Sorry if I was unclear.

I agree with Frank. I usually will coil it as a single strand but I leave a tail on the starting end so that I can finish it off the same as I would a double-strand coil.

FrankPS wrote:

I understand, but I'm pointing out that you can have the benefit of a single-strand coil (not flaking) with the carrying ability of a double-strand coil. That's all. Sorry if I was unclear.

ahh, i see.  definitely.  if i am not rushed for time i will start at one end and do the coils to the other end (takes longer but flakes best).  if i am in a hurry i coil it from the middle, which is faster but just flakes pretty well.  i try not to coil it starting at both ends as it seems like it doesn't flake well.

man, those folks that end up with one strand that they wrap around and up and over and under and through and back around.....   bless their little hearts....

So...assuming you’re carrying a rope through the desert for 45 min, it sounds like a double strand coil is the least clustery?  Thanks, guys. :)

definitely.  another thing with single strand over one shoulder is that if you are going to be hiking that long it can get tiring on your neck.

i am kind of curious who came up with the single strand (messenger bag) style coil.  i don'r remember ever seeing anybody use it until the last couple years.

Ted Pinson wrote:

So...assuming you’re carrying a rope through the desert for 45 min, it sounds like a double strand coil is the least clustery?  Thanks, guys. :)

It’ll work anyway. :)

One thing not mentioned I think - whether single or double stranded coil, the shoulder “straps” of a backpack coil can suck for longer periods on the approach / return to the vehicle.  

45 minutes isn’t bad for me. But much longer than that and I’m that much more more inclined to bring a big enough pack to have the rope inside or strapped on the outside.

Yeah...but then you have to bring it UP.

Ted Pinson wrote:

Yeah...but then you have to bring it UP.

True, that. 

Maybe it is time to convince your partner you need for him to practice carrying the rope like this:

For a long descent or approach use the double strand coil. Otherwise, I'll use a single strand, although slightly different than the one pictured on climbing mag which is more comfortable.

eli poss wrote:

For a long descent or approach use the double strand coil. Otherwise, I'll use a single strand, although slightly different than the one pictured on climbing mag which is more comfortable.

eli, how does your double-strand coil help in a long descent or approach?  Do you mean that the strands encircling your shoulders are double (i.e., the 'backpack shoulder straps")?

Bill Lawry wrote:

eli, how does your double-strand coil help in a long descent or approach?  Do you mean that the strands encircling your shoulders are double (i.e., the 'backpack shoulder straps")?

No I just mean the normal backpack coil. The symmetry helps it stay stable much better than a single strand backpack. The depicted way to do a single strand backpack has it only going over 1 shoulder, which really sucks.

You can incorporate the other shoulder, which IMO makes it more comfortable and adds a little bit of stability, but it is still asymmetrical and will loosen up and cause problems with a long or overly technical approach/descent. 

Single strand every time. No need to hunt for the ends or the middle. Just untie your end and coil like this

http://multipitchclimbing.com/

Gear chapter section 10 

You then don't need to flake the rope out when starting the next pitch 

eli poss wrote:

The depicted way to do a single strand backpack has it only going over 1 shoulder, which really sucks.

Ah, I see. My bad. I didn’t realize that the OP’s “single-strand” method included the finishing straps.  Thanks.

That does look suck-y for a long haul. But may be pretty good for, say, just moving down the crag for the next sport route of the day.