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Transition to canyoneering


Eshed Bootel · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 35

This is only true to the Brave men and women of the Colorado Plateau Canyoneers!
In most other places you'll find good natural anchors or bolts. Sometimes both.

Carl Schaefer · · Boulder, CO · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 344
Tim Stich wrote: Canyon folk are just stuck in the dark ages permanently. The sketchy anchor shit is all chest beating and showing off. 

Merlin wrote:

Yup.  

nope.

the expertise to use a sandtrap safely is the opposite of "dark ages".  Are sketchy run-outs (or free-soloing!) boldness or showing off?

it's true that left webbing leaves a trace, but unlike bolts holes, webbing is temporary.  Any argument for bolted raps at every canyon stage would also support bolted belays all the way up every multi-pitch climb.
Cameron Anderson · · Ogden, UT · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 95
Carl Schaefer wrote: Tim Stich wrote: Canyon folk are just stuck in the dark ages permanently. The sketchy anchor shit is all chest beating and showing off. 

nope.

the expertise to use a sandtrap safely is the opposite of "dark ages".  Are sketchy run-outs (or free-soloing!) boldness or showing off?

it's true that left webbing leaves a trace, but unlike bolts holes, webbing is temporary.  Any argument for bolted raps at every canyon stage would also support bolted belays all the way up every multi-pitch climb.

A couple of other things to add:

Serious canyoneers will often try to "ghost" a canyon, which means that they wouldn't even leave webbing behind.

A lot of canyoneering rappels are pretty short and sometimes there are a ton of them in a canyon. People aren't going to do a canyon with a power drill, a hammer, and 40 bolts on them just to make it safer for the future people who may or may not be doing it later. Alpine climbing would be a good comparison in a lot of ways. Nobody is going to go bolt 20 belay stations up a mountain so that people never have to do anything a little bit sketchy.

While I agree that bolts could (should?) be added to a lot of rappels rather than doing sketchy things, I would also agree with what Carl says here. For canyoneers, the challenge of constructing anchors and solving pothole challenges is the fun and excitement of the canyon. While it seems stupid, most people would probably think that climbers are idiots for climbing anything runout or slightly dangerous when it doesn't really have to be that way. Why not go place bolts every 5 feet on a slab climb? Because that takes away the excitement and fun to a lot of people. As with climbing, there are plenty of canyons to go around, so you can go do the ones with all bolted anchors if you choose to.
Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,476

God, here is another example of the tunnel vision you get with the aesthetic sensibilities of canyon rats. Instead of some nice stainless bolts, we instead have the usual chocstones with a fucking hunk of A-10 plane wreckage as the backup. What the actual fuck? Haul that trash out of there!

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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