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Edelrid Bulletproof biners


Mike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 10
Jake Jones wrote:

They most certainly will, just as their aluminum/zinc counterparts do.  The idea is that it will take much longer for this to occur.

Zinc carabineers? Also I was more referring to the thought that it looks like the steel is essentially a thin wear layer clad on the carabineers so as it wears, if there is any sort of gap behind the steel before the Al, (or since the aluminum is much softer it could wear a hole into it quicker) you would develop initially a pinhole then with more wear a really sharp edge.  If that entire steel area is a solid inset piece then this isn't obviously possible. 

Jake Jones · · Richmond, VA · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 1,734
Mike13 wrote:

Zinc carabineers? Also I was more referring to the thought that it looks like the steel is essentially a thin wear layer clad on the carabineers so as it wears, if there is any sort of gap behind the steel before the Al, (or since the aluminum is much softer it could wear a hole into it quicker) you would develop initially a pinhole then with more wear a really sharp edge.  If that entire steel area is a solid inset piece then this isn't obviously possible. 

Most carabiners are produced using an aluminum alloy.  That alloy, among other things exists to combat oxidization and to increase strength.  Zinc is a main component of that alloy, and so is magnesium.  Someone like Jim Titt could chime in on the exact metallurgy way better than me, but yes, Zinc.  

I assume that these have been tested for wear pretty extensively in order to back up the claim that they'll last much longer than regular aluminum baskets.  Again, time will tell.

Ken Noyce · · Layton, UT · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 2,415
Jake Jones wrote:

Most carabiners are produced using an aluminum alloy.  That alloy, among other things exists to combat oxidization and to increase strength.  Zinc is a main component of that alloy, and so is magnesium.  Someone like Jim Titt could chime in on the exact metallurgy way better than me, but yes, Zinc.  

I assume that these have been tested for wear pretty extensively in order to back up the claim that they'll last much longer than regular aluminum baskets.  Again, time will tell.

Yep, carabiners are typically 7075 aluminum which is alloyed primarily with zinc, 7075 is alloyed with ~6% zinc, ~2.5% magnesium and ~1.5% copper.

Jake Jones · · Richmond, VA · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 1,734
Ken Noyce wrote:

Yep, carabiners are typically 7075 aluminum which is alloyed primarily with zinc, 7075 is alloyed with ~6% zinc, ~2.5% magnesium and ~1.5% copper.

Whew, I was afraid of a bad memory combined with a cursory internet search that I might have been talking out of my ass.  Thanks for confirming Ken.

Ken Noyce · · Layton, UT · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 2,415
Mike13 wrote:

Zinc carabineers? Also I was more referring to the thought that it looks like the steel is essentially a thin wear layer clad on the carabineers so as it wears, if there is any sort of gap behind the steel before the Al, (or since the aluminum is much softer it could wear a hole into it quicker) you would develop initially a pinhole then with more wear a really sharp edge.  If that entire steel area is a solid inset piece then this isn't obviously possible. 

So, the bulletproof does not have a thin wear layer clad on the carabiners.  It actually has a fairly substantial steel wear piece that is seperate from the carabiner and appears to be possibly crimped onto the carabiler.  I don't know what the exact shape of the internal portion of the steel or the steel aluminum interface, but it is possible that you could wear throuth the steel leaving a sharp edge like you are talking about depending on the shapes of the two pieces of the carabiner.  Based on how substantial the steel piece feels, I'm going to guess that there will be some pretty substantial rope groves before you wear through the steel piece, so I kind of doubt that you would use the biner to the point that it wears all the way through the steel.

Jake Jones · · Richmond, VA · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 1,734
Ken Noyce wrote:

So, the bulletproof does not have a thin wear layer clad on the carabiners.  It actually has a fairly substantial steel wear piece that is seperate from the carabiner and appears to be possibly crimped onto the carabiler.  I don't know what the exact shape of the internal portion of the steel or the steel aluminum interface, but it is possible that you could wear throuth the steel leaving a sharp edge like you are talking about depending on the shapes of the two pieces of the carabiner.  Based on how substantial the steel piece feels, I'm going to guess that there will be some pretty substantial rope groves before you wear through the steel piece, so I kind of doubt that you would use the biner to the point that it wears all the way through the steel.

I suspect, and this is just pure conjecture, that by the time that happens, you would have rendered at least two regular aluminum biners unusable- thereby justifying the cost.  My prediction is more like 3-5 though.  I hope that's true.  I'm psyched to try them.  I have three marked just to see.  One for the first draw that I'll use to test wear, and two long ones for anchors.  I hadn't thought about this until someone else mentioned it- supposedly a significant portion of rope "dirt" comes from anodization on aluminum biners.  I'm not sure how much truth there is to that, and don't really care enough to test it.  But if it is true, then this should cut down on that as well.

Ken Noyce · · Layton, UT · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 2,415
Jake Jones wrote:

I suspect, and this is just pure conjecture, that by the time that happens, you would have rendered at least two regular aluminum biners unusable- thereby justifying the cost.  My prediction is more like 3-5 though.  I hope that's true.  I'm psyched to try them.  I have three marked just to see.  One for the first draw that I'll use to test wear, and two long ones for anchors.  I hadn't thought about this until someone else mentioned it- supposedly a significant portion of rope "dirt" comes from anodization on aluminum biners.  I'm not sure how much truth there is to that, and don't really care enough to test it.  But if it is true, then this should cut down on that as well.

Yeah, I'm expecting at least 5 times the lifespan of a typical aluminum biner.  I actually put bulletproofs on all of my sport draws!  Also, it is absolutely 100% correct that the thing that makes ropes black is oxidized aluminum (not necessarily just the anodization which wears off fairly quickly).  Using bulletproofs on the first draw and the anchors will drastically cut down on how dirty your rope gets! 

Mike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 10
Ken Noyce wrote:

So, the bulletproof does not have a thin wear layer clad on the carabiners.  It actually has a fairly substantial steel wear piece that is seperate from the carabiner and appears to be possibly crimped onto the carabiner. 

Thanks for the actual response showing you actually thought about what I wrote. 

Also my zinc carabiner comment was a joke...  I am fully aware of the composition of 7075 Al anyone with a search engine can find that. If you were familiar with the field you would also find it humorous to call it an aluminum zinc alloy. It's an aluminum alloy with a zinc addition. Just as steel is an iron or ferrous alloy. Bringing up a component of the alloy when my comment was in regards to general macroscopic features is a bit out there. The armchair metallurgy on mountain project is a source of personal distaste. So, apologies for the misunderstanding... 

Ken Noyce · · Layton, UT · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 2,415
Mike13 wrote:

... The armchair metallurgy on mountain project is a source of personal distaste. So, apologies for the misunderstanding... 

No worries, I didn't see an misunderstanding at all.  Though not a metallurgist myself, as an aerospace engineer I do have a basic understanding of metallurgy, and typically, I just figure it's not worth getting too worked up over people's misconceptions about that kind of thing.  I do agree that calling a 7000 series aluminum an aluminum zinc alloy is kind of funny since as you mentioned, it's just an aluminum alloy.

Ken Duncan · · Ft Collins, CO · Joined Jul 2004 · Points: 3,945

I normally go through aluminum anchor draw biners in 3 to 4 mos. I’ve been using these for about a year and a half and they have minimal wear. Very happy with them. 

Malcolm Daly · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 380

These things are the da bomb! Not only do they have all the above mentioned bene’s they also reduce rope drag and awesome for clipping to the tyroleans across Boulder and Ckear Creeks. 

Khoi · · Vancouver, BC · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 45

Seriously!

Edelrid's Bulletproof biners deserve to become as popular as Grigris!

Pavel Burov · · Russia · Joined May 2013 · Points: 50

Got 6 longer (18cm) Bulletproof draws this Spring and put 'em under heavy use thru the Summer and Fall. They are good comfortable to clip sport draws for projecting routes. Although 6 seems to be a bit excessive. Two or three is enough — you want to clip Bulletproof as the first draw and to protect that crux move you need to work on. Other bolts could be clipped with something lighter.

Alex Guzman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 0

Anyone noticed a difference using one while repelling with an atc? Quicker slip? 

Briggs Lazalde · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 0
Alex Guzman wrote: Anyone noticed a difference using one while repelling with an atc? Quicker slip? 

Does steel produce less friction than aluminium? Id image the shape matters more than the metal. Round stock vs ibeam. Curious to know though

Jay Eggleston · · Denver · Joined Feb 2003 · Points: 19,000
Alex Guzman wrote: Anyone noticed a difference using one while repelling with an atc? Quicker slip? 

No

Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
Briggs Lazalde wrote:

Does steel produce less friction than aluminium?

No.

eli poss · · Durango, Co · Joined May 2014 · Points: 507
Jim Titt wrote:

No.

Does steel produce more friction than aluminum? Or are they pretty much the same?

Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490

Once they are both polished it´s hard to measure any difference between the two, new anodised aluminium can be a bit higher but that doesn´t last long. Any difference in the friction is more likely to be due to a larger diameter where the rope runs.

coldfinger · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 55

I use the Edelrid HMS Bulletproof Triple FG  and it is 100% no doubt my favorite heavy duty cragging/rock climbing belay carabiner ever.

Beyond it's durability, it has great ergonomics and a great set of features. And it's not really any heavier than comparable large HMS carabiners.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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