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Carrying something like a BD Pilot ATC as well as a BD Guide ATC for multipitch days?


Original Post
Dan Finn · · Sandy, UT · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 5

I feel totally comfortable belaying with my tube style device but I recently got a grigri to use at the gym.  After having used it for a bit I really prefer it and feel like it's much safer for my partner to use something like that.

The grigri is probably way to heavy to take outdoors on multipitch days but I'm wondering if it might make sense to pickup something like the Pilot to use for belaying and then carry a tube style ATC for repels?  This seems like a small weight penalty to have some added safety for my partner in the event that something where to happen to me like a rock falling on my head or getting my hand sucked into a bolt.  Anyone else doing this or considering it?

AJ Leiden · · Eau Claire, WI · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 0

Just take your gri gri if you like using it. It’s not that heavy, lots of people bring them on multipitch routes.

kevin deweese · · Oakland, Ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 350

When there's other tube-style devices (Megajul, Alpine Smart, Alpine Up) that allow for both assisted braking and double rope rapping, you're better off going with that IF a grigri is too heavy for multipitch days. 

John Wilder · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2004 · Points: 1,535

I've used a grigri on multi pitches for going on a decade now. Never noticed the weight. 

If you want to save a bit of weight, an atc-guide for the leader and a grigri for the second is a great combo and spares a second grigri being needed. 

drewdogg2112 · · halifax, MA · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 20

I like to use my Grigri on multi pitch. The only real reason being that if a rock knocks me out my belayer is still on belay. I carry an ATC guide as a backup for rappels and just in case my grigri gets booted off a cliff I still have an auto locking belay device (when I belay up the second) its not that heavy considering all the cams, nuts, slings, draws, and beer I carry up multipitch climbs ( =

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 190
John Wilder wrote:

I've used a grigri on multi pitches for going on a decade now. Never noticed the weight. 

If you want to save a bit of weight, an atc-guide for the leader and a grigri for the second is a great combo and spares a second grigri being needed. 

Wouldn’t you need a second ATC for raps, or do you simul?

Marty C · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 70

Ted,

Set up rappel as usual.

Convert to a fixed rope (stone hitch or other technique) and have first person rappel on single line with griGri.

2nd. person removes stone hitch (or removes "other" fixed line technique used) and raps on two lines with ATC belay device in normal manner.

No need to simul-rappel

Dan Finn · · Sandy, UT · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 5

Fair enough, guess I'll just drag the grigi along with me then.

John Wilder · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2004 · Points: 1,535
Ted Pinson wrote:

Wouldn’t you need a second ATC for raps, or do you simul?

We usually each bring an atc if rappels are called for, but occasionally I forget to bring mine, so I just fix and rap and then my partner untied the line and rappels as usual. 

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 190

Gotcha.

Derek Doucet · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 51
Ted Pinson wrote:

Wouldn’t you need a second ATC for raps, or do you simul?

There’s a few ways to rap (non-simul) with a gri gri. They range from modestly complex (‘biner blocking systems) to as simple as it gets: the first climber descends on a gri gri on a single strand cloved to the anchor in front of whatever bend you’ve used to join your ropes and the second climber unties the clove and descends normally. There are others too. 

ViperScale . · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 240

Gri-gri is not noticeable weight for multi pitch climbing but if it is really an issue for you just use an atc guide instead than you can belay and rappel with the same device.

DrRockso · · Red River Gorge, KY · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 339

I'll join the club, I carry a grigri on multipitch. The grigri2 or even the grigri+ is substantially lighter than the original grigri and I really don't feel like it's a big deal to carry. As John said, whoever is belaying the leader carriers the gri gri and the leader just carries an atc guide. Personally I like to top belay with the grigri so I usually carry both the ATC guide and grigri while leading. If you're simul-rapping both parties carrying grigri's makes things easy and you could forgo the ATC's altogether if you were really looking to shave ounces.

C Archibolt · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 871

One megajul and one atc guide for multipitch. Leader always gets belayed on the megajul. Follower always gets belayed on the atc. Every belay has breaking assistance. Both devices can rappel. 

Xam · · Boulder, Co · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 71
Creed Archibald wrote:

One megajul and one atc guide for multipitch. Leader always gets belayed on the megajul. Follower always gets belayed on the atc. Every belay has breaking assistance. Both devices can rappel. 

Why not just two megajuls?

DrRockso · · Red River Gorge, KY · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 339

Megajul in guide mode sucks. Too much resistance.

Xam · · Boulder, Co · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 71
DrRockso wrote:

Megajul in guide mode sucks. Too much resistance.

I hadn't noticed it as a problem but I appreciate the reasoning.

David Kerkeslager · · New Paltz, NY · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 108
Marty C wrote:

Ted,

Set up rappel as usual.

Convert to a fixed rope (stone hitch or other technique) and have first person rappel on single line with griGri.

2nd. person removes stone hitch (or removes "other" fixed line technique used) and raps on two lines with ATC belay device in normal manner.

No need to simul-rappel

A quick note about this: if you use the stone hitch, be aware that it causes the two strands to pass around each other twice. Depending how you untie it, it may not be completely obvious when you remove the stone hitch that the strands are now twisted around each other, and it can be a big annoyance to untangle mid-rappel especially if shrubbery gets involved. It's a simple problem to resolve: just untwist the strands before loading your rappel device and give the rope a few shakes to shake out the twists ahead of you as you go.

I ran into this problem using the stone knot to fix lines for TR solo and then rapping afterward. It took me a bunch of times before I figured out what was going on, so I hope this saves someone else some trouble.

C Archibolt · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 871
DrRockso wrote:

Megajul in guide mode sucks. Too much resistance.

Same reason 

Pavel Burov · · Russia · Joined May 2013 · Points: 50

If Grigri is too heavy for multi pitch routes there are chances one should prefer conditioning to multi pitch routes.

Bill Lawry · · New Mexico · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,615
Pavel Burov wrote:

If Grigri is too heavy for multi pitch routes there are chances one should prefer conditioning to multi pitch routes.

I prefer to not take a gri-gri for multi.  Gear weight is usually on my mind when planning a long day.

Full disclosure:  I am opinionated / biased against break assisting devices.  :-)

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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