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Borrowing a lead rope from the gym

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,240
Victor K wrote:

This is a strange situation. I follow the gym/insurance reasoning and sort of nod along as if it makes sense. But then i think about my actual experience as a climber and it's really odd. Climbing has traditionally been "taught" through mentoring. Even now, after nearly 20 years, I'm still getting guidance from peers. How does a gym decide whether or not a person is "teaching"? It's a truism that if someone hurts themselves in your gym, YOU'LL GET SUED! But climbing is, in fact, dangerous. Obviously. Can anyone speak to actual lawsuits related to this subject? Or are all these businesses just being EXTRA careful?

Since I have time to kill...

Yes, I can speak to actual lawsuits but really the details are too long to get into via the forums.

In general the gym will be contacted by a lawyer who is asking for details regarding an incident. This is refered to your insurance rep who shows the lawyer a proper waiver and then you never hear from the lawyer again UNLESS "gross negligence" is present. Rarely is GN proven as it's a high bar but also rarely do these things actually come to a court case and the insurance company simply settles out of court. In this scenario no one really gets the details of it anyway.

A climbing gym isn't really concerned with how climbing has traditionally been taught or learned or anything. They are concerned about their liability in case of an accident. It isn't about what "teaching" is or isn't, it's about controlling their environment. This, in nut shell, is what an insurance person wants to see. 

T Roper · · DC,VA,NM,UT,CT,MA · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 860

Does anyone here ever really whip at the gym? I thought not.

 I'm whipping right now at the gym, bowline and hip belay baby, its too crowded for anyone to know.


Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,240

As a business, it's a smart move to avoid all these arguments and just institute a simple, easy to understand, and efficient system to "protect your ass-ets". (Huge bonus points to whenever can name the gym industry person to whom this refers to).

Bill Kirby · · Baltimore Maryland · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
T Roper wrote:

 I'm whipping right now at the gym


 I thought I heard some loud grunts followed by a scream tonight. 

 ;) how you goin steal BB’s winky smile :)

Jim Turner · · Lakewood, CO · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 290
Matt Pierce wrote:ridiculousness

Every gym I’ve been to does what the OP describes (not allowing teaching lead belay/climbing).  Movement, RnJ, ET, Thrilkseekers...

Matt Pierce · · Denver, CO · Joined May 2010 · Points: 289

Who removed my post!?!?! After receiving a very friendly email from Uber I went back to revisit this thread and my comments have been removed! WTF MP? This seems to be a growing trend...

Paul Deger · · Colorado · Joined Sep 2015 · Points: 35

Back to the OP - never wrong to ask, and if you do not like the answer, 3 options: 1) Go with it, 2) go to another gym, 3) go outside. You are a guest at the owners business and have no “rights” based upon your knowledge or skill.  

Andrew Steavpack · · Castle Pines, CO · Joined Mar 2017 · Points: 0

Even if they are to allow you to borrow it if the gym does know about your skill level or knowledge of teaching belay skills, it would set a precedent that requires a definition of the "skill necessary" to teach someone to lead at that gym and if the partner you teach were to cause an injury or drop you or someone else that responsibility, while morally is on you, would legally be on the gym so they have to set a standard for everyone to follow. Either just do mock lead for them to climb and practice their belay with an auto belay or just go outside and avoid the fuss and drama.  Can't really blame the gym, however you probably could have just said you wanted a lead rope to climb and taught them anyways and the gym would be none the wiser to you teaching them. 

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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