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Is there such a thing as 5.14+ moves?


Original Post
Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 793

I was reading the description for To Bolt or Not to Be over at Smith Rock, and thinking about the really hard stuff at the Fins in Idaho, and both seem more about sustained climbing difficulty, to get that rating.

That made me curious. Again.

Are there single moves at the big ticket grades?

Cheers, MP! Helen

Mark Paulson · · Raleigh, NC · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 130


JCM · · Seattle, WA · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 95

Short answer: yes.

There are plenty of long enduro routes in the big-ticket grades, but plenty of short fierce ones too. The first 5.14+ (c or d) in the world was Hubble, in the UK, for which the difficulty comes from a 4 move boulder problem.



ChrisHau · · Hanover, NH · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 355

Yeah, definitely. This article, which is the source of Mark's figure, is pretty much definitive, but the short answer is that if you have a V12 or V13 on a route, that route pretty much has to be a 14 mid to plus. That said, that's the upper bound of the route grade for a single move - many popular modern routes are more endurance or power endurance oriented, which is why you can get a 5.15a like Realization with 'only' a V10 crux, or at the most extreme end, Southern Smoke, a 14c with a measly V6 crux (which, if taken in isolation, would make for a 12+ route). 

R. Moran · · Moab , UT · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 140

https://youtu.be/i2bZsFZdpgs 

Dave says the crux of realization is 7B+ boulder problem! With 8a climbing leading into it. Interesting interview if you can put up with the mysticism aspects and tangents. He talks about how hard routes are still pretty easy in the scheme of easy climbing leading to defined cruxs, or hard sustained climbing but the cruxs are more moderate and how there isn't alot of truly hard sustained climbing on routes. But he is a wizard!

Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 793

Thanks!

Now I have interesting stuff to look up, too, to see what those truly hard moves look like.

House and yardwork looms, even though it's sunny and coldish, but climbable outside. Once I get a vehicle, it looks like soloing might be in my future. Oh well. :-/

Best, OLH

Jon Rhoderick · · Redmond, OR · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 870
R. Moran wrote:

https://youtu.be/i2bZsFZdpgs 

Dave says the crux of realization is 7B+ boulder problem! With 8a climbing leading into it. Interesting interview if you can put up with the mysticism aspects and tangents. He talks about how hard routes are still pretty easy in the scheme of easy climbing leading to defined cruxs, or hard sustained climbing but the cruxs are more moderate and how there isn't alot of truly hard sustained climbing on routes. But he is a wizard!

I think the video is outdated and this has changed. I have heard other people say the crux is more like V10 or so, and there are truly hard, sustained routes now, like Stoking the Fire and La Dura Dura

Muscrat · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 3,625

JUst read the latest issue of R&I. sustained 13+ leading into multiple V15 moves, ad nauseam. Yes.

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 195

Is that a different Meltdown than Rodden’s Trad line?  Because that supposedly went at least 14.c.  Really cool info graphic...reminds me of the thread we had a while ago where someone was trying to come up with a more precise/systematic way of grading climbs.

Dan Austin · · San Francisco, CA · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 0
Ted Pinson wrote:

Is that a different Meltdown than Rodden’s Trad line?  Because that supposedly went at least 14.c.  Really cool info graphic...reminds me of the thread we had a while ago where someone was trying to come up with a more precise/systematic way of grading climbs.

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/106075960/meltdown

R. Moran · · Moab , UT · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 140

https://youtu.be/5khBEErrZZ0

A quick example of what a mid 5.14 move looks like! Climbing in its purest form

Pavel Burov · · Russia · Joined May 2013 · Points: 50

It depends. Grades are tricky. E.g., there's an  infamous 7a+ (formally 5.12a) 7 Zamazannyh Dolbljonok (word-to-word translation: 7 epoxy-filled cheat-holds) route in Bahchisaraj, Crimea has sent down Cedar Wright and almost sent down Emily Harrington (she sent it on her 4th attempt). The route is a kind of one move wonder. The neighboring route Zmij (means Bible Serpent) is 7c/7c+ (formally 5.12d/5.13a) is way harder, although every single Zmij move is at least twice easier the 7 Zamazannyh Dolbljonok crux.  It is just 27 moves of increasing difficulty on overhang with tricky clips and no chance to rest.

Jon Frisby · · Colorado Springs, CO · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 120

Vasil Vasil is a hard V15 crux at 5.15c. It's like 3 moves 

ChrisHau · · Hanover, NH · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 355
Muscrat wrote:

JUst read the latest issue of R&I. sustained 13+ leading into multiple V15 moves, ad nauseam. Yes.

What I found interesting about Silence, Ondra's new 15d, is its relative lack of sustain compared to some of the enduro-hog routes at Oliana. Ondra said that the crucial bit required to send Silence was the ability to hang for 5 minutes at kneebars!

Lena chita · · OH · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 806

I like that chart that Mark Paulson posted above.

It is more appropriate to use bouldering grades when talking about crux or single moves. E.i. not "5.14+ moves", but "defined V9 crux", or "multiple V6's stacked one after another".

Both will get you to pretty solid 5.14

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Tim Lutz wrote:
snowdenroad · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2007 · Points: 50

I would think V17 is harder than 14+.

Burden of Dreams

https://vimeo.com/241518809

Jon Frisby · · Colorado Springs, CO · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 120
snowdenroad wrote:

I would think V17 is harder than 14+.

Burden of Dreams

https://vimeo.com/241518809

If this were a crux followed by 12b, this route would be 5.16

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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