BD Old Camalots (particularly 3.5 and 4.5)

These numbers don't put the old cams in a good light (as for them being much different than c4s in their use-able range) but the numbers dont mean shit when you're climbing, So I turn to you guys

When all you have is a 4.5 incher sometimes it’s the perfect fit. Personally love mine. Routes like three penguins in Moab 4.5 is almost necessary. As for 3.5 i retie all my slings when I get an old cam and they both function like a cam!

Other, perhaps less well known brands cover these "missing" BD sizes. Trango and HB pieces are in my gear bin; the table OP cited suggests that WC and RE pieces would be useful as well.

Phil Pullshard wrote:

When all you have is a 4.5 incher sometimes it’s the perfect fit. Personally love mine. Routes like three penguins in Moab 4.5 is almost necessary. As for 3.5 i retie all my slings when I get an old cam and they both function like a cam!

How do you go about retying the loops?

John Wilder wrote:

There was no functional difference between the black and grey 3.5s. The grey ones were newer, that's all.

In terms of usefulness, the 3.5 was considered a bigger loss than the 4.5 when they went away. Maybe if you climb alot of off widths, you may hunt around for a couple, but by and large, the 4.5 isn't really missed. 

The 3.5, on the other hand, is. I kept mine and definitely wouldn't sell it, and have even considered buying another, but I don't climb on gear quite as much as I used to these days, so it never quite seems worth it when I see them for sale... 

Wait, what's so special about the #3.5? It's almost exactly duplicated by the #4 Friend/4CU/Demon...

I've never seen a spot the 3.5 works that a new 4 won't. Same thing with the 4.5 vs new 5. I have definitely had problems carrying new 4's and expecting them to fit where an old 4 goes.

I hoarded old 4's for a while. Eventually realized it was silly. I sold some, kept two, and plan to keep them forever.

Rob T wrote:

Same here, 2 old 4’s. Doubly important for me bc when those are perfect it’s too wide for fists for me and too tight for knees. 

It's a hard size. I "invented" a good technique for that size. Still hard though.

Chris Ritna wrote:

How do you go about retying the loops

I buy 1inch sling of same color, cut old one off thread webbing through then i tie a water water know with 2-3 in tail ( does not affect getting came off rack having longer tail) just feel safer personally. Have found you will be a couple inches further from cam when fall. But what’s it matter i have had two water knots catch whippers and hold find. Also cheap alternative to sewn slings but also more variation. 

Chris Ritna wrote:

How do you go about retying the loops?

You can send them to BD for reslinging. 

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote:

I've never seen a spot the 3.5 works that a new 4 won't. 

FWIW I have been on a few pitches at the creek that will take a 3.5 but not a 4. 

sclair wrote:

FWIW I have been on a few pitches at the creek that will take a 3.5 but not a 4. 

Meat hooks? There are a few I suspect that may be the case but I had so many 4 Friends back then that I never came across this problem.

I think the 3.5 is a pretty handy piece, particularly when the rock gets crumbly and squishier. I run into pitches/sections with a fair amount of regularity that I am not happy with a 3 but a 4 absolutely does not fit. But yes, the old 4 friend or the current single axle dmm equivalent will fill the same size range.

I've never found the 4.5 to be important. The overlap between the old 4 and new 5 makes that piece unnecessary. I suppose if you have no old 4s, then a 4.5 might be helpful?

look up the route on three penguins in arches national park and tell me the 4.5 is negligible. 

some times 4.5 fits better than old 4 and new 5 swear to allah

Phil Pullshard wrote:

Jason Todd wrote:

I'd say "some times" is actually a pretty rare occurrence. 

I see a difference in lobe size, but as I said I only know of one route that 4.5 is the size of the crack, I use mine often, If you're not searching for the wide don't bother getting one but climbing vedauwoo a lot I find places where 4.5 is better than over cammed 5. See: Three Penguins in arches and worm drive in vedauwoo, both list 4.5 as pro because sometimes 5 is over cammed. I absolutely agree if your're just building a rack don't bother but if you search for hand stacks get a couple. buy yours if you dont want it :)

Phil Pullshard wrote:

I see a difference in lobe size, but as I said I only know of one route that 4.5 is the size of the crack, I use mine often, If you're not searching for the wide don't bother getting one but climbing vedauwoo a lot I find places where 4.5 is better than over cammed 5. See: Three Penguins in arches and worm drive in vedauwoo, both list 4.5 as pro because sometimes 5 is over cammed. I absolutely agree if your're just building a rack don't bother but if you search for hand stacks get a couple. buy yours if you dont want it :)

I will certainly let you know, on the fence right now

Phil - I've done three penguins and worm drive. I never wished for a 4.5.... Again I can see maybe if you don't own any old 4s, then a 4.5 could potentially be a nice piece to have. Personally, I have never found a crack that couldn't be adequately protected between new and old 4s and new 5s. Although, on exactly 2 routes, I was very happy to have the wc 5 friend, and it was to avoid kicking out old 4s rather than an old 4 too tippy/new 5 not fitting situation. A 4.5 would not have fit in either of those places.

Come to think of it, my first time on worm drive I didn't have any old 4s. Definitely did not send and still felt just fine with new 4s and new 5s.

That's all just my 2c, if you like the 4.5, I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. I just have never come across a crack that was inadequately protected with an old 4 and new 5, but could be adequately protected with a 4.5.