Mt. St. Helena Crags - Fire Damage Updates

Bear Cliff got it the worst. Best course of action seems to be a total re-bolting. The entire cliff was heated up and experienced spauling, resulting in the loss of the outer layer of rock with some exploded portions. Don’t climb on those bolts!  

Samuel Trimboli wrote:

Bear Cliff got it the worst. Best course of action seems to be a total re-bolting. The entire cliff was heated up and experienced spauling, resulting in the loss of the outer layer of rock with some exploded portions. Don’t climb on those bolts!  

I really feel sorry for my Northern California brothers... The photos of the burned out areas are quite shocking, not to mention the poor people who lost their lives and the others who have nothing except for the clothes on their backs. 

Recovery will take years. 

Back in 2003 a big fire torched a small crag close to the Needles... Elephant Knob was burned so bad the stone sluffed off in 3/8 inch thick chunks... this left the bolts sticking way out and obviously un-safe. 

The stone is soft and crumbly and not climb-able at all. So I figure we will need to let geologic time have its way and in a few 100,000 years it will be OK.

I hope your crags came out better. 

best of luck

As an engineering geologist and erosion control specialist, I'd be happy to be involved with the situation. I've been climbing at MSN for 18 years.  

http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=472

"Superintendent Order 660-17-58 has been issued today. It states that "Beginning November 11th, 2017 the below listed trails, roads and areas of Robert Louis Stevenson State Park, are closed due to the effects of the TUBBS FIRE until further notice due to logistical operations, resource protection Post-Fire, and public safety."

CLOSED TRAILS/ROADS:   Mount St. Helena Trail

OPEN TRAILS/ROADS:  Table Rock Trail, Palisades Trail, & Historic Oat Hill Mine Road

So it looks like basically everything to the West of Hwy 29 is closed to the public, which includes the Bubble, the Bear, Satellites, The Mine, the Far Side.

Table Scraps and Table Rock remain open 

Thanks for the update.

Link to full closure document. https://www.parks.ca.gov/pages/472/files/RLS_Posted_Order_660-17-058.pdf 

I spoke to a couple of climbers last weekend at Mt. St Helena State Park.  They had just walked down the trail in the closed section.  They stated that they had been climbing the Bubble.  I asked them about the bolts and the state of the area.  They said that the area around the rock had been burned, however they used the bolts and had no problems.  They said that there was no sign of spalling of the rock.  

There are other climbing areas within the off limits area that were not impacted by the fire.

The situation is very difficult.  I am involved with other recreational areas that have burned over the last 3 years.  In those cases the government agencies have not yet opened the resources.   It's like the agencies throw away the key.  Are we being protected from falling trees?  How can a state park or national forest ever say it is safe to walk in a forest.  How long will we have to wait for the forest to be "safe?"  As climbers, we calculate risk.  We decide for ourselves what level of risk we are willing to take and we live with the consequences.  The state park personnel can never insure our safety, therefore they should allow climbers to assess the risk for themselves. 

It's time to find a new way to deal with this situation.

Why exactly do you think it's a good idea to publicize illegal climbing on a public forum? That should really help our user group out in the eyes of the powers that be (eye roll).

David Engel wrote:

I spoke to a couple of climbers last weekend at Mt. St Helena State Park.  They had just walked down the trail in the closed section.  They stated that they had been climbing the Bubble.  I asked them about the bolts and the state of the area.  They said that the area around the rock had been burned, however they used the bolts and had no problems.  They said that there was no sign of spalling of the rock.  

There are other climbing areas within the off limits area that were not impacted by the fire.

The situation is very difficult.  I am involved with other recreational areas that have burned over the last 3 years.  In those cases the government agencies have not yet opened the resources.   It's like the agencies throw away the key.  Are we being protected from falling trees?  How can a state park or national forest ever say it is safe to walk in a forest.  How long will we have to wait for the forest to be "safe?"  As climbers, we calculate risk.  We decide for ourselves what level of risk we are willing to take and we live with the consequences.  The state park personnel can never insure our safety, therefore they should allow climbers to assess the risk for themselves. 

It's time to find a new way to deal with this situation.

I agree, we as climbers do calculate risk... while in a climbing environment. You might be well versed in the new environment, but Joe climber my not have any experience with these new hazards. 

I will also second what's already been said. Why are you spraying online about folks climbing in a closed off area? That's a great way to make sure that key gets thrown away. 

Also, why would you then quote the guy spraying about illlegal climbing you find so offensive? I feel like I’m in some logical whirlpool.

I don't find any of it offensive nor do I care if they throw away the access key. 

I find it ironic to be complaining about access issues and in the same post talk about climbers trespassing to gain access. 

Cool, irony.

oh ferchrissakes.. there's all kinds of user groups up there on a daily basis, hiking biking climbing , walking their dogs, headlamps blaring out in the night, the parking just as crowded as it has ever been, despite the string of yellow tape.  When the local social climbing club posts up on their fb page "don't climb there until we tell you "  that's the tip off that the "select" climbers are up there climbing by themselves. The state park has never had a budget or staff to patrol or offer any services there.  In fact, the state park is there to provide a home base for the communication towers.  Tower maintenance manages the road and no other work gets done there. That's how it got to be a climbing area in the first place.  Personally, I'd like to see some real action up there with some real science re the stone and an open dialogue between the park service and the public, but since we don't have a functioning local public agency taking their jurisdiction seriously it's just going to be every user group for itself.  . Once park services stands back long enough the yellow tape will disintegrate and it's back to routine. Still no bathroom, still your car will be broken into, still no organized parking. And we've been fine with that for a long time, right? Good luck everyone.  

Good news everyone. I just spoke to someone at the parks service, and RLS SP is officially open again. The parks service person I spoke to couldn't confirm if bolts had been replaced, but he said some climbing groups had prior access to the park and may have replaced bad bolts.

Can anyone confirm if bolts have been replaced??

SALF wrote:

Good news everyone. I just spoke to someone at the parks service, and RLS SP is officially open again. The parks service person I spoke to couldn't confirm if bolts had been replaced, but he said some climbing groups had prior access to the park and may have replaced bad bolts.

Can anyone confirm if bolts have been replaced??

Great to hear! And can anyone give info on how to help with bolt replacement if it hasn't already been done? I don't have much experience but would love to get involved.

Problem is it's not just the bolts..it's the rock itself.. fractured and otherwise degraded at the Bear and Bear Wall and found to be unclimbable. Not to mention the probable mudslides in a big rain should that happen. People are climbing as usual at the bubble.. I didn't go out to the far side so can't say as to that area. It appears that the routes that survived will not need rebolting and the routes that burned cannot be rebolted.  Natural recovery will take some time. I was happy to see some oaks and Manzanita starting to sprout..and some mints..and the fractured rock is beautiful in it's own right. 

Road to Bear

Bear Crack

Bear Fingers area

Mark's Moderate

Bear trail area

New growth

Ed, 

   Did you get a chance to inspect for spalling at Bear?  It looks like some of the lighter areas maybe spalling or lichen that protected the rock from soot.  Not sure from the photos.  

Spalling is such an interesting word. What you are seeing in the photos as white are what's left behind after the burned and fractured rock has fallen off.  There's widespread fractures and broken crumbling rock where there used to be routes. Below the wall you can inspect the fallen chunks that show what the entire wall has become. They are beautiful but fragile now. The soot on the wall is greasy and thick. The upper part of the wall is less damaged.  

thanks for the updates.