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Throwing my banana...


El Duderino · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 55
Jim Turner wrote:

My 2 cents is that banana peels harm wild life, tossing them is avoidable as opposed to some other types of pollution/disturbance caused by climbing, and packing out the peels doesn't hinder my climbing.

I see this argument everywhere, but have yet to find a shred of actual empirical evidence to demonstrate that banana peels have this effect (if anyone has seen any data on this issue, I'd appreciate seeing it).  I would reckon that the wildlife impact from banana production is far greater than the seemingly negligible impact from peel disposal if tossed.  That said, I'll keep packing them out and composting them as it's no skin off my back.  

Hobo Greg · · My Van · Joined Mar 2016 · Points: 120
El Duderino wrote:

I see this argument everywhere, but have yet to find a shred of actual empirical evidence to demonstrate that banana peels have this effect (if anyone has seen any data on this issue, I'd appreciate seeing it).  I would reckon that the wildlife impact from banana production is far greater than the seemingly negligible impact from peel disposal if tossed.  That said, I'll keep packing them out and composting them as it's no skin off my back.  

For decades, people tossed trash in the ocean because there was no proof it had any negative effects. Don't wait for proof, just pack out whatever you packed in. It's unbelievably easy. If you packed it in, you have the strength to pack it out.

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,230
Hobo Greg wrote:

For decades, people tossed trash in the ocean because there was no proof it had any negative effects. Don't wait for proof, just pack out whatever you packed in. It's unbelievably easy. If you packed it in, you have the strength to pack it out.

Watch out!!!! Zombie thread!!!!!!!

Bogus analogy Greg. You are talking about trash, eg plastic, metal etc. Bananas biodegrade and might be fine for the ocean as well. You seem so damn sure that banana peels will harm the environment, there's open minds here, so find some empirical evidence that proves it.

Hobo Greg · · My Van · Joined Mar 2016 · Points: 120
Tradiban wrote:

Watch out!!!! Zombie thread!!!!!!!

Bogus analogy Greg. You are talking about trash, eg plastic, metal etc. Bananas biodegrade and might be fine for the ocean as well. You seem so damn sure that banana peels will harm the environment, there's open minds here, so find some empirical evidence that proves it.

Food scraps ARE trash. And everything bio degrades, it's just a matter of time. Peels might take years in the desert. In the meantime, it's just trash. Sure, MAYBE it's not bad for the earth, or maybe it is. Packing it out definitely avoids the latter, while tossing it is only hoping for the former. And if you wanna be the one going on hope, don't even try and talk to me about empirical evidence. If you're gonna throw the peel, it's on YOU to prove that it's OK.

But it's all good man. While you're here wasting people's time and acting childish, I was out doing a fifteen mile hike with an 800' 5.6 thrown in. Put that in your peel and smoke it.

Jim Turner · · Lakewood, CO · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 290

Y'all really disagree with "Don't feed the wildlife"?

If you brought your dog to the crag, you wouldn't want people to feed it, esp stuff like chocolate bars.

Same same for wildlife.

El Duderino · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 55
Jim Turner wrote:

Y'all really disagree with "Don't feed the wildlife"?

If you brought your dog to the crag, you wouldn't want people to feed it, esp stuff like chocolate bars.

Same same for wildlife.

I agree with it in so far that it aculturates wildlife (I don't think this is the right word, but you get what I mean).  I understand that it's probably not good for their health in large quantities (e.g., garbage cans etc).  However, again, I have yet to see evidence that a banana peel would have an impact on wildlife species that is equivalent to chocolate to dogs.  And, again, I would actually very much like to see evidence to the contrary as it would give me a reason to tell people that throwing their banana is more than an inconvenience to other climbers.

El Duderino · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 55
Hobo Greg wrote:

Food scraps ARE trash. And everything bio degrades, it's just a matter of time. Peels might take years in the desert. In the meantime, it's just trash. Sure, MAYBE it's not bad for the earth, or maybe it is. Packing it out definitely avoids the latter, while tossing it is only hoping for the former. And if you wanna be the one going on hope, don't even try and talk to me about empirical evidence. If you're gonna throw the peel, it's on YOU to prove that it's OK.

But it's all good man. While you're here wasting people's time and acting childish, I was out doing a fifteen mile hike with an 800' 5.6 thrown in. Put that in your peel and smoke it.

Bags of plastic buried in anaerobic conditions in landfills probably don't biodegrade within the order of millennia.  The decomposition of the contents thereof is also greatly slowed.

Also, you can't prove a null hypothesis (eg: banana peels have no or a negligible impact on the environment in deciduous forest ecosystems).  As I see it, the burden of proof lies on you (though I'm not formally trained in logic, so if anyone can educate me on this, I'd appreciate it).

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/222/Shifting-of-the-Burden-of-Proof  

https://liesandstats.wordpress.com/2008/10/25/you-cant-prove-the-null-by-not-rejecting-it/

Hobo Greg · · My Van · Joined Mar 2016 · Points: 120

I'll reiterate one last time. Packing out = definitely no impact. Tossing = maybe some impact. The proof needs to come from the person who might be making the impact, not the person who is absolutely not making an impact.

Jimmy Downhillinthesnow · · Bozeman, Montana · Joined Mar 2013 · Points: 10
Emmett Lyman wrote:

Yeah, the impact of bio trash definitely depends on the local environment. Long-term best answer is composting, but it's hard to imagine a future where we're able to make it a mainstream habit. 

Not really. I moved to Boston from Seattle (temporarily). In Seattle, composting is mandatory (and every public garbage can must have a recycling receptacle next to it). One of my friends from college made the opposite move, and got 2 warning letters and then a citation for not composting food waste.

TBlom · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2004 · Points: 360

8 pages on bananas and its not even winter yet...

topher donahue · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2007 · Points: 175

Yeah, You're all right. A banana peel does not carbon emissions equal.  I'm just frustrated with living in a country with a government that denies well-tested science that is accepted and being acted on in every other modern country.

David Vogel · · Lake Forest, CA · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 1,280

Science. I like science. I bring re-usable bags on every approach/trip and have picked up loads of   Non-biodegradable as well as unsightly biodegradable trash. It makes me feel better about all the times I littered as a little kid then stopped as a young teenager. What really bothers me is plastic. It will still be here when the human race is extinct one day. I took this picture way out on a old dirt road in red rocks because...

A: I know the accosted. He’s a badass climber.

B: I know the one who did the accosting, she broke my heart. I wish her happiness and a very joy filled life. Only been in love a couple times so far. Let’s just say I wrote some sad songs on guitar about it for therapeutic recovery and I cried quite a bit. 

C: Symbolism. The accosting was in Red Rocks. Also how hilarious this thread has been for me. 

*If I pack others trash out every time I go hiking and climbing then I simply don’t care or feel bad about tossing this peel this ONE time. Let’s all love each other folks. Love conquers biodegrade banana peel chucking hatred. Let’s all sing a Beatles song together and go send something.

*All of this is true. You’ll have to take my word for it.

PS - OP Tradiban. I mean Nick. Nick I don’t think she should have called you a “fucking asshole” When she told me about it days later I remember those words used specifically. Certainly mean spirited, unkind to say the least. You’re just an asshole sometimes like all the rest of us (non peel related asshole). Let’s all try not to be assholes so much.

Jim Turner · · Lakewood, CO · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 290
El Duderino wrote:

However, again, I have yet to see evidence that a banana peel would have an impact on wildlife species that is equivalent to chocolate to dogs.  And, again, I would actually very much like to see evidence to the contrary as it would give me a reason to tell people that throwing their banana is...

Duderino, I don't have much on banana peels, but petmd.com says this about apple cores:

"It’s also important that you remove all seeds from an apple before giving it to your dog. Apple seeds contain cyanide, and although a few apple seeds likely won’t harm your dog, eating them over time can lead to the accumulation of cyanide in your dog’s system, which is quite hazardous."

A chipmunk, or her fetus, might have more tolerance to cyanide.  Or less...

brian n · · Manchester, WA · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 91

YouTube must know that I've been entertaining myself with this thread because this showed up on the opening page today.

David Vogel · · Lake Forest, CA · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 1,280

Nice video ^^^ Shall we all sign a petition to to take our used banana Peels (blood oath commitment for life, punishable by death) and begin  rigorously  throwing them for Mother Nature’s Nourishment?  I have a really nice fountain pen and a scroll...

John Barritt · · OKC · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 1,053

Next up: Female bullies looking for any reason to accost someone.

Is it toxic feminity?

Is it racial bias?

Are banana peels tossed into the ecosystem causing rage in women?

Will David Fogel ever find love again?

The answer to all these and more coming soon to MP

....... ;)

David Vogel · · Lake Forest, CA · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 1,280

Tears! And these are the ones that come from uncontrollable laughter. What welcoming change. Well when the one day came along (now she’s nicknamed “my ittle ladybug”) when she pinched my ass while belaying... it was all over from there. I was going to post how violated I felt... but we ended up eating sushi together afterwards. Now she’s writing cute little “median household income” spreadsheets and talks about how cute our babies will be one day and hopes they don’t end up hating climbing as they grow up. The sun also rises :)

Mason Stone · · Boise, ID · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 0

You must respect the banana,          peel. And dare we say the environment. Otherwise to the gallows with ¥e. 

Frankly toss your peel whenever and wherever, to paraphrase Bukowski while adding: it matters not, one day the earth will breathe one last utter sigh of relief at our passing.

M

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,230
Eric L · · Roseville, CA · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 115
Tradiban wrote:

Boom.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/costa-rica-let-juice-company-dump-their-orange-peels-forestand-it-helped-180964666/

Nice try, but not quite.  No one has said that it wasn't biodegradable, the issue is the timeline (that article was 15 years after the dumping) and the issues created with land managers as people trash UNMOLESTED areas (creating access issues). They also dumped in areas already degraded and the soil damaged to the point of the forest not recovering from human abuse.  Also, the environment matters.  In a jungle it degrades quickly but in a desert or alpine environment the peel (or pile of them) will last a longer time and remain unsightly (in a nice, un molested space).  Although if you are inviting people to dump fruit waste on your front lawn, we can help, it will degrade after all.  :)

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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