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Ok to set up 5 ropes?


Original Post
Bart D · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2017 · Points: 0

We show up at Joshua Tree about 7am. Hit Thin Wall.  Guide is there, with 5 ropes set up. Has the Rap station. Says I am doing a class, you guys have to 

go somewhere else. I am still new. Is this ok? Rude? We just moved to another crag.


John Wilder · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2004 · Points: 1,535
Bart D wrote:

We show up at Joshua Tree about 7am. Hit Thin Wall.  Guide is there, with 5 ropes set up. Has the Rap station. Says I am doing a class, you guys have to 

go somewhere else. I am still new. Is this ok? Rude? We just moved to another crag.


No, guides can't close walls in national parks without park approval. 

Julius Grisette · · Carbondale · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 5
Bart D wrote:

We show up at Joshua Tree about 7am. Hit Thin Wall.  Guide is there, with 5 ropes set up. Has the Rap station. Says I am doing a class, you guys have to 

go somewhere else. I am still new. Is this ok? Rude? We just moved to another crag.


You should have gotten his name and guiding outfit and put his name on blast. 

ton · · Salt Lake City · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 0

3 would be OK.  but 5 is right out.  

Hobo Greg · · My Van · Joined Mar 2016 · Points: 175

I got into it once with a guide at Echo Cove in J Tree, had 3 or 4 ropes up, two of which weren't being used, and still he wouldn't let me climb on our rope and gear. Then he did a group circle end of day pep talk with everyone while all the ropes were still up, still wouldn't let me climb on my gear and rope. I was new, looking back, I would have told him outright to get fucked and then climbed on.

Doug S · · W Pa · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 55

Honestly, if there's a rope sitting idle on a route for more than a few minutes I'd just pull it, coil it for them and climb. That's wholesale B.S.


Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 311

Rude and wrong.  

if you really want to have a good time.....    climb and pull the anchors and drop the TR's. 

The guide dosen't own the cliffs and they should pick a less favored spot.

SeƱor Arroz · · LA, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 10

Interesting. I've run into guides in that exact spot who were extremely apologetic about it made a point to let us know we could move their ropes OR use them if we wanted. Agree you should have gotten their info and complained, both to their ownership and to the NPS. 

Tony K · · Pa · Joined May 2017 · Points: 0

Rude YES .... tying 5 routes ....... no way especially if not being used.......


El Duderino · · SoCal · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 1,355

Typical of thin wall IMO. Rude yes. Unethical yes. 5 ropes is way too much. If you’re new a guide may/may not use that as leverage to benefit themselves. May act like the class has priority over everyone else. Not true. If the rope isn’t being used it’s ok to pull it while also not being a jerk about it. If they don’t like it too bad. No need to quarrel. A guide putting up 5 ropes may act like pulling is not ok, but deep down they know the real rules. Asking to use the rope to climb is also an option. Depends on the situation, I Will say however, it’s JT in 2017, and it’s the thin wall!

Rudy Chavira · · Taylorsville. Ut · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 0

Three ropes are too much too much rude shit happening in climbing lately. 

.

Nicholas Gillman · · Las Vegas · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 327
ton wrote:

3 would be OK.  but 5 is right out.  

10/10 

Dr Strangelove · · Bend, OR · Joined Oct 2017 · Points: 30

Hell no

Michael Douglas · · Yucaipa, CA · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 40

Depending on how many clients the group had, 5 ropes is not unreasonable. HOWEVER, hogging a line and not allowing fellow climbers to climb through is a good way put-off potential clients and possibly even loose your JT guiding permit. Some groups have crazy policies that are ill found on not allowing people climb through (they shouldn't have 5 lines up though). Just don't climb on the guide's gear nor accept if they offer; just ask to climb through. Only one certified guide needs to be present on JT outings so you may run into an "assistant guide" who doesn't really know guiding etiquette - or much of anything for that matter. This sounds like a classic boy scouts move.

I actually had to have a stern conversation with co-leader (who is not a certified climbing guide) on this very same topic at the very same place (thin wall) after he told a group of climbers to go look elsewhere.

Derek Doucet · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 64

It’s not the number of ropes that’s the real issue, though 5 does seem excessive. It’s the site selection. Using the Thin Wall for a group TR site (yes, I know, happens all the time) is poor form when there are so many less heavily used alternatives available. When you apply for a guiding permit in the park, certain sites are specifically excluded because of their popularity. I’ve never really understood why Thin Wall isn’t among them. 

Michael Douglas · · Yucaipa, CA · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 40

True regarding finding less trafficed areas but thin wall is allowed last time I applied in 2011. Areas restricted to guiding outfits on weekends and holidays that I have on record are (a) Quail Springs Picnic Area (Trashcan Rock) (b) Feudal Wall (Indian Cove) (c) Short Wall (Indian Cove) (d) Pixie Rock (Indian Cove)

Derek Doucet · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 64
Michael Douglas wrote:

True regarding finding less trafficed areas but this wall is allowed last time I applied in 2011. Areas restricted to guiding outfits on weekends and holidays that I have on record are (a) Quail Springs Picnic Area (Trashcan Rock) (b) Feudal Wall (Indian Cove) (c) Short Wall (Indian Cove) (d) Pixie Rock (Indian Cove)

Yup. Thin Wall was still permitted as recently as last year, and no doubt still is. My point is that it shouldn’t be. 

Michael Douglas · · Yucaipa, CA · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 40

^^ Agree

Todd Bruns · · Golden , Colorado · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 0

If he would have straight out said you can't climb here I would have pulled one of the ropes not in use and just started climbing. They don't own the cliff they share it like the rest of us. 

Rudy Chavira · · Taylorsville. Ut · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 0
Todd Bruns wrote:

If he would have straight out said you can't climb here I would have pulled one of the ropes not in use and just started climbing. They don't own the cliff they share it like the rest of us. 

Very well put I'm sick of the rude ass shit that is going on in climbing today, I mainly TR solo and have many encounters at base, you have to run me off if you want it, been climbing since late sixties good luck.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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