Possible Loop Road Fee Increase- public feedback needed


Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
caesar.salad wrote:

yet another reason why vegas suuuuuuucks

Huh? This has nothing to do with Vegas. Fees are going up across the entire NPS/BLM/NFS spectrum.

Garret Nuzzo-Jones · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 1,438
Marc801 C wrote:

Huh? This has nothing to do with Vegas. Fees are going up across the entire NPS/BLM/NFS spectrum.

People hate fees but it's a lot of money to maintain that infrastructure, staff appropriately and handle the level of use that they're seeing. It's not like that money is going to raise the salaries of the employees who work there, it's to offset the budgetary shortfalls they're experiencing. I hate to say it but if the BLM can't afford to maintain the facilities then the logical outcome is that they start having to close them.

caesar.salad · · earth · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 85
Marc801 C wrote:

Huh? This has nothing to do with Vegas. Fees are going up across the entire NPS/BLM/NFS spectrum.

I know I'm just being a troll.

5.15 Scrambler · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 0

Metro is demanding that the BLM to start paying for SAR activities in RR due to the explosion in rescue calls, so that is what that funding is earmarked for.  The two new helicopters needed to "train" in the canyons and snatch up ladies in Uggs at the trail head have to come from somewhere.

Also the budget cuts from the new administration are looming above a department running at roughly 60-70% of fully staffed before the current new administration.  Paying for public lands, god that sucks.  They just need a gym with 200 foot walls in Vegas and I can quit dealing with sand, parking and all the gumbie chuffers from NYC clogging up Cat in the Hat and needing a rescue.  

I would certainly guess that the good ol' days of doing whatever we want in RR are closing due to the sheer multitude of us, especially when we have things like kegs at Kraft boulders during spring break from a group bouldering from UCLA.  

City Dweller · · New York, NY · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 10
5.15 Scrambler wrote:

  They just need a gym with 200 foot walls in Vegas and I can quit dealing with sand, parking and all the gumbie chuffers from NYC clogging up Cat in the Hat and needing a rescue.  

2/10

;)

Doug Foust · · Henderson, Nevada · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 165
5.15 Scrambler wrote:

Metro is demanding that the BLM to start paying for SAR activities in RR due to the explosion in rescue calls, so that is what that funding is earmarked for.  The two new helicopters needed to "train" in the canyons and snatch up ladies in Uggs at the trail head have to come from somewhere.

Where did you hear that Metro wants to charge the BLM?

5.15 Scrambler · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 0

From metro SAR

caesar.salad · · earth · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 85

Ha! So Vegas is to blame. 

Simply being that close to a city (at worst, a city like Vegas) ruins a climbing area that could be beautiful if it were more remote. I was so sad when I went there for the first time. 

rex parker · · las vegas n.v · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 245

Thank all the climbing gyms for hosting learn to climb classes for the last few years making money off teaching the masses . Now it gets crowded with newbies . And now people need to get rescued more often .  

Southern Nevada Climbers Coalition · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined 9 days ago · Points: 0

Hey Everyone!

The SNCC has met with the BLM on this issue, and we wanted to first encourage you guys to e-mail your comments to:

** BLM_NV_RedRock_BPlan@blm.gov **

They need public comment on record, and if you couldn't make the public events, the e-mail is your best bet to get your voice heard.  They really wanted to hear from you all.

To address a couple things in this thread:

100% of funds collected at the gate stays here in Southern Nevada -- and the proceeds from the fee increase would stay here too.  This includes if you buy your National Parks Pass at the gate.  This is a question that got asked a lot, especially when talk of the fee increases came around, and was one of the first things we asked.

The fee increase proceeds aren't yet earmarked for anything -- again, they're looking for public comment here.  Give them some good ideas!  Some of the ideas that were floated around would honestly be fantastic:

  • A Fast Lane for pass holders.  No more waiting for the throngs of weekend visitors paying with CC and asking for dogbones for their van-full of bichons.
  • A Return road from the 3rd pullout.  No more rally-rage trying to pass people driving the rest of the loop to get out.
  • Further parking lot improvements such as Ice Box.
  • Potentially helping SAR costs.  There's a SAR response roughly every three days in Red Rock during season.
  • Improve parking, signage, and install a toilet at Kraft.

This isn't just to reduce visitors -- it might have that effect in the short term, but it sounds like they don't expect that to last long term, and the long term is what they're planning for with the fee increases.  And like someone mentioned in a previous comment -- these fee increases will be seen nationwide in the years to come.

As Far as Red Spring implementation; nothing is certain -- They may implement something like at Smith Rock: a do it yourself ticket kiosk that you put in your windshield.  Where and how a gate might be, will it include access to the parking in front of Cannibal, and Kraft?  There's lots of questions here, but good ideas from the people who use these areas the most will help them do this right.   One promising thing that we were told is that it probably wouldn't include the hiking pulloff on the right side, before you arrive at the first residences and before you get to Red Spring and follow the road to the right.

Overall, a fee increase doesn't seem unreasonable for those of us who use this place the most.  A $60 annual pass doesn't put us out of line with other places like Smith Rock, Rifle, The Gunks, or anywhere else that has yearly access fees.  If you agree, let them know!  If you don't agree ... let them know! 

** BLM_NV_RedRock_BPlan@blm.gov **

MojoMonkey · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 68

The fee increase proceeds aren't yet earmarked for anything -- again, they're looking for public comment here.  Give them some good ideas!  Some of the ideas that were floated around would honestly be fantastic:

This isn't just to reduce visitors -- it might have that effect in the short term, but it sounds like they don't expect that to last long term, and the long term is what they're planning for with the fee increases.  And like someone mentioned in a previous comment -- these fee increases will be seen nationwide in the years to come.

Overall, a fee increase doesn't seem unreasonable for those of us who use this place the most.  

This post confuses me. They are raising fees and then are looking for ideas on what to spend it on? Shouldn't that be the other way around? Other than maybe higher rates will reduce visitors for a bit, and then mostly just non-local visitors? And fees are going to go up everywhere else anyway so why not?

John Wilder · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2004 · Points: 1,530
MojoMonkey wrote:

This post confuses me. They are raising fees and then are looking for ideas on what to spend it on? Shouldn't that be the other way around? Other than maybe higher rates will reduce visitors for a bit, and then mostly just non-local visitors? And fees are going to go up everywhere else anyway so why not?

The BLM has a huge list of things that Red Rock needs- I suspect that the public comments are to gauge interest from the public on what is needed most. 

Southern Nevada Climbers Coalition · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined 9 days ago · Points: 0
John Wilder wrote:

The BLM has a huge list of things that Red Rock needs- I suspect that the public comments are to gauge interest from the public on what is needed most. 

As usual -- John nailed it.

Jerry Handren · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2005 · Points: 10

"The BLM has a huge list of things that Red Rock needs"

The various agencies are thinking about this in the wrong way.

(1) There is a real problem of overcrowding in Red Rocks and Mt Charleston.
(2) This problem will not be solved by more infrastructure in Red Rocks (or in Lee and Kyle canyons)
(3) There is a huge pent up demand for outdoor recreational opportunities from Las Vegas residents (and also visitors).
(4) Despite being surrounded by beautiful landscape on all sides, access for most Las Vegas residents is both restricted and/or difficult. (mostly not talking about Toyota Truck driving climbers here...talking corolla driving families.
(5) Potentially tremendous assets for the people of Las Vegas...such as Mt Potosi, The west side and north end of the Charleston range, Blue Diamond Hill, The Desert National Wildlife Refuge, the La Madre range etc. etc. etc. are being virtually ignored and or/squandered.
(6) The best solution for the overcrowding in Red Rocks (and Lee and Kyle canyons), and also for the advancement of low-impact outdoor recreational opportunities for the people of (and visitors to) Las Vegas is to improve access and facilities outside the currently popular areas.

...can you tell I just got a parking ticket at trail canyon!

Southern Nevada Climbers Coalition · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined 9 days ago · Points: 0
Jerry Handren wrote:

"The BLM has a huge list of things that Red Rock needs"

The various agencies are thinking about this in the wrong way.

(1) There is a real problem of overcrowding in Red Rocks and Mt Charleston.
(2) This problem will not be solved by more infrastructure in Red Rocks (or in Lee and Kyle canyons)
(3) There is a huge pent up demand for outdoor recreational opportunities from Las Vegas residents (and also visitors).
(4) Despite being surrounded by beautiful landscape on all sides, access for most Las Vegas residents is both restricted and/or difficult. (mostly not talking about Toyota Truck driving climbers here...talking corolla driving families.
(5) Potentially tremendous assets for the people of Las Vegas...such as Mt Potosi, The west side and north end of the Charleston range, Blue Diamond Hill, The Desert National Wildlife Refuge, the La Madre range etc. etc. etc. are being virtually ignored and or/squandered.
(6) The best solution for the overcrowding in Red Rocks (and Lee and Kyle canyons), and also for the advancement of low-impact outdoor recreational opportunities for the people of (and visitors to) Las Vegas is to improve access and facilities outside the currently popular areas.

...can you tell I just got a parking ticket at trail canyon!

Really, really excellent points Jerry.

It's almost taken for granted how much we have potentially available to us.

Sorry you got the ticket!

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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