Grigri Belay Technique

With all the new gyms coming on board I see the staff at Movement and Earth Treks telling people who have the original Grigri that they are now belaying wrong.

Most of the time the staff member is someone that has good intentions, but does not understand that before they were born many people belayed correctly and safely with the GriGri which came out in 1991.

The belay technique taught at the time is now called the CLASSIC Technique. The poster people point too for justification is the NEW technique for the Grigri 2 and the +.

Please understand that people are not belaying wrong, they have been belaying that way for many years by following the instruction from Petzel. If you look at the instructions on the Grigri itself it shows the way the original grigri is designed to be used.

Staff please watch the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSVchbjVKLE

I used the old method (palm up) on the Grigri long before Grigri2 came out, and I still use my old Grigri. But that doesn't prevent me from learning and using the new method that is the standard with the Grigri (no matter the original, Grigri2, or the plus). Why is it so hard to learn something new?

James wrote:

With all the new gyms coming on board I see the staff at Movement and Earth Treks telling people who have the original Grigri that they are now belaying wrong.

Most of the time the staff member is someone that has good intentions, but does not understand that before they were born many people belayed correctly and safely with the GriGri which came out in 1991.

The belay technique taught at the time is now called the CLASSIC Technique. The poster people point too for justification is the NEW technique for the Grigri 2 and the +.

Please understand that people are not belaying wrong, they have been belaying that way for many years by following the instruction from Petzel. If you look at the instructions on the Grigri itself it shows the way the original grigri is designed to be used.

Staff please watch the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSVchbjVKLE

Apologies that your ego was hurt by the gumby gym climbers, but many things have changed in climbing over the years as we find generally better ways to do things.  The old gri gri belay technique is no longer endorsed by petzl and your referencing of the video only goes to show that you are correctly doing an outdated technique. The new technique, which applies to the original gri gri as well,  considering it operated on the same principles as the newer iterations,  is better in that it maintains a more solid hand on the brake strand at all times and prevents panic squeezing of the device.  With practice the new technique is every bit as smooth and functional as the older technique.  If you choose to continue to belay using the old technique outdoors that is your own perogative but in the gym you're subject to the house rules. 

Sorry James, but you're wrong.  Even though plenty of people *have* managed to skate by without injuring/killing their partners, more than a handful of climbers HAVE been severely injured/killed due to poor grigri technique. And the poor grigri technique is the exact thing you're trying to defend.

It's not limited to gumbies either. Last summer in Rifle a 5.14 climber dropped another 5.14 climber due to sloppy grigri technique, e.g. "palm up" belaying, causing a horrendous leg injury.

Just don't do it.  There is a better way. Consider unlearning old habits which have been proven to be less safe.

As a former gym manager I can tell you that the staff is only doing their job. Per insurance standards each gym has to have a certain way of belaying and they have to teach and enforce that standard. 

In addition, it's now common knowledge that the newest petzl method of belaying with the Gri is the best way to belay with that device. So, get used to it.

Personally, I think the Gri is only good for top roping because it has a tendency to be mis-used during lead by old-timers using the old method of belay and newbs who just can't get the whole finger under the flange thing. This is not conjecture as I have observed and recorded many incidents regarding the Gri for business record keeping. My advice is to sell the Gri and get something else...unless yer a top roper!

P.S. From what I've gathered about the accident in Rifle, referred to above, and it had nothing to do with Classic vs. New feeding technique.

climbing friend,

utilize the new method, do not be lazy asshole and take brake hand off the strand for even brief moment or constantly rest your hand on the cam as if it is a hand-resting device, as the many peoplez do constantly, do not utilize excessive loop of slack down to knees to compensate for your laziness and inattentiveness, do not let anyone belay you with deadly ATC, do not wear the PAS thong, myah.

you are welcome

Because there are new and improved belay devices and new and improved methods of using them, does this mean that a hip belay is no longer safe or acceptable?

climbing friend,

yes

Plenty of people use the old technique on Grigri2's. People who should know better. I'm amazed more people don't get hurt.

Anyway, don't use the old technique, no matter which device you have.

jleining wrote:

Because there are new and improved belay devices and new and improved methods of using them, does this mean that a hip belay is no longer safe or acceptable?

Repeated topics like this make hip belaying seem bomb and predictable by comparison.

jleining wrote:

Because there are new and improved belay devices and new and improved methods of using them, does this mean that a hip belay is no longer safe or acceptable?

No, I will not accept a hip belay when there are better ways to belay. I don't care how old and crusty you think you are. I definitely don't think a hip belay is safe for those huge whippers I've been taking on my year-long 5.6 proj (I'm gonna send soon!! I can feel it!).

Let me ask you this, just because there are kernmantle ropes and carabiners now, why aren't you still using hemp ropes and rappel with a dulfersitz?

Tim Lutz wrote:

so which is Chris Sharma, an old man or a newb?!

Old man, duh.

aikibujin wrote:

I definitely don't think a hip belay is safe

Absolutely as safe as belaying with any device.

John Wilder wrote:

The catch is, those who can hip belay these days are far and few between.

I agree. That's pretty much my point.

aikibujin wrote:

Let me ask you this, just because there are kernmantle ropes and carabiners now, why aren't you still using hemp ropes and rappel with a dulfersitz?

That's comparing apples to oranges. The improvement in ropes is quantifiable and not debated. comparing different methods of belaying and ranking them as far as safety is not quantifiable. This all boils down to the new generation of "climbers" taking the sport out of climbing and trying to make it as safe as bowling. Yawn

aikibujin wrote:

I agree. That's pretty much my point.

And I'd say the same thing about belayers with grigris - beyond the base capabilities of the device itself competence is random at best. And even if you can reliably judge competence with the device who really feels comfortable with a bell curve of competence when it comes to belaying? That is a good thing about hip belaying - it is pretty binary, you're either competent with it or you don't do it and there never was much in the way of a bell curve of competence around it that you see with grigris.

Tim, are you suggesting that the biggest ass provides the best hip belay?

Side question: Why does Petzl always dress the people in their how to videos like Oompa Loompas?

Tim Lutz wrote:

#MAFGA

As opposed to #OCOAIS (overwhelming cluelessness on an industrial scale).

John Wilder wrote:

Funny thing about hip belays. Back when I was a newer trad leader in 2004 or 2005, I can't remember when, I took a HUGE fall on a hip belay. Softest catch of my life.

Like anything else, if done correctly, it's a safe as any belay. The catch is, those who can hip belay these days are far and few between. I can think of 3 people who I'd let hip belay me on something hard. 

Wow! I guess I'm an old school noob. Not only do I have a list of three (for sure) I would accept a hip belay from, I'd be honored to learn from them.

I came really close to meeting one of the three, but I just couldn't make the trip work out... :-/

Best, OLH