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Offset cam sizes for which piton scars?


Original Post
· · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 1970 · Points: 0

Hoping to hear from some legends on this one-- what are the most common pin scars in Yosemite and which offsets are needed for those scars?

· · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 1970 · Points: 0

Bump cause this post never made the front page...? Is this site only for selling your used shit, or can someone provide real insight?

In my experience I'm finding a lot of 3/4" angle scars... So what are the most common scars and which offsets work best in them?

Please don't destroy this post with neurotic ranting about which company makes the best offset cams.....

Ryan Hamilton · · Orem · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 20

I'm not a Valley veteran, but I've had plenty of experience placing cams in pin scars. Of the offsets that I placed when I was on El Cap last Fall it seems like I used the Metolius Mastercam 2/1 (Yellow/Blue) a fair amount. I also found that Totems, more often than not, protected the pin scars better than offsets did. 

Trevor. · · Boise, ID · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 834

I'm definitely no legend, but I'll weigh in regardless:

I used my 0.3/0.4 and 0.4/0.5 BD offsets more than the other sizes when I was in the valley. I'll echo that Totem cams frequently fit pin scars better than offsets. I'd rather have Totems than offsets if I could only have one or the other. 

Goran Lynch · · Oakland, CA · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 8
Brendan Muls wrote:

Bump cause this post never made the front page...? Is this site only for selling your used shit, or can someone provide real insight?

In my experience I'm finding a lot of 3/4" angle scars... So what are the most common scars and which offsets work best in them?

Please don't destroy this post with neurotic ranting about which company makes the best offset cams.....

I think people didn't answer because the answer is probably obvious: it depends on the crack you're climbing. If you were to ask about a specific climb or two you might have gotten some meaningful answers.

When I climb routes in Yosemite that have long pitches with finger-sized cracks and are challenging enough for me that I want to sew them up (10c and up, roughly), I often carry a normal double rack plus a full set of offsets. I have no general advice on which of those get the most use.

D-Storm · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2007 · Points: 295

You pose a general question, so I'm giving you a general answer:

I think this is one of those cases where you'll have to find out for yourself. Every gear placement is different. Bring a size-range of finger-size offsets in addition to the usual pieces, embrace a little bit of adventure and self-reliance, and you'll be fine—most of these routes have been climbed safely many, many times before offsets came along. Some pin scars are shallow/thin, just big enough to slot the tip of a pinky finger or less, and others are big enough to fit a 2X2" square peg—all common sizes from my memory of the place.

If you're looking for clean-aid beta, you'll have to narrow your question down to a particular route, and/or check out a SuperTopo guidebook, which might be the best bet for answering how many double- or triple sets of offset cams and any other gear that people typically desire for various routes.

John Wilder · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2004 · Points: 1,530

Yellow/Red, Green/Yellow are the money offsets for Aliens, imho. That said, you should acquire a full set if you're planning on doing much aiding and probably doubles in these two sizes. 

slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,045

i think my favorites are the green/yellow and the blue/green.  red/yellow is good also.

jon bernhard · · grand junction, co · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 288

Duh... the ones that fit...

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,348
Brendan Muls wrote:

Hoping to hear from some legends on this one-- what are the most common pin scars in Yosemite and which offsets are needed for those scars?

Metolius 00/0 up to 2/3 are what I use. The most common sizes I find on walls are 0/1 and 1/2, but I often place all four sizes.

dindolino32 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 25

+1 for totems.  I rarely bring my offsets anymore

Kevin Mokracek · · Burbank · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 200

Totem black, blue and yellow. 

ViperScale · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 235

I climbed around 7500 total feet during the week I was in Yosemite and I can't give you a good answer to that question so it must not be to common. What do you call common?

Mark Hudon · · Lives on the road · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 415

I love my Totems, they are my go-to cams, and they are very good in a lot of pin scars BUT, the Metolius Master Cam offsets, up to yellow/?, will hold better in more scars than the Totems will. 

Fat Dad · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 60
Brendan Muls wrote:

Bump cause this post never made the front page...? Is this site only for selling your used shit, or can someone provide real insight?

In my experience I'm finding a lot of 3/4" angle scars... So what are the most common scars and which offsets work best in them?

Please don't destroy this post with neurotic ranting about which company makes the best offset cams.....

This site and the responses to this post shows just how helpful others can be.  Kudos to you.  I read the above and, if it's not a troll, does not persuade me that I should want to offer anything helpful.  

rafael · · Berkeley, CA · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 50

pin scars arent the only reason to have offset cams, there are plenty of funky flares that a regular cam wont fit well in. These flares come in all sizes, and flaring angles, from tiny to gigantic. If you have the cash get a whole set of offsets (or totem basics). 

Kevin DeWeese 1 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2014 · Points: 0
Kevin Mokracek wrote:

Totem black, blue and yellow. 

For the Valley trade routes this is the end of the discussion. 

Leave the offset cams at home and use Totems. Even offset cams are still a bit rattly in scars, totems are bomber and it feels like they were specifically made for Valley angle piton scars. 

Edit: 

Mark Hudon wrote:

I love my Totems, they are my go-to cams, and they are very good in a lot of pin scars BUT, the Metolius Master Cam offsets, up to yellow/?, will hold better in more scars than the Totems will. 

Really Mark? Haven't seen that to be the case in my experience but you've been on more of the trades than I have. 

Mark Hudon · · Lives on the road · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 415

I fell off the 5th pitch of Freerider and three Totems in pin scars pulled. When I went back up later, the Offset Master Cams I placed looked far more secure. I've had Totems pull on two other occasions also. The Offset Master cam's cams have much larger range in size. Their T construction allows then to fit into some scars better also.

 Believe me, you'll have to pry my Totems from my cold, dead hands, but the Offset Master Cams are good enough, in enough cases, that I will have two sets on all my wall routes from now on (and I own 4 complete sets of Totems))

Mark Hudon · · Lives on the road · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 415

And directly to the OP, No, of course, 3/4" pin scars are not "the most common". There is no "most common" pin scar. 

Kevin DeWeese 1 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2014 · Points: 0
Mark Hudon wrote:

I fell off the 5th pitch of Freerider and three Totems in pin scars pulled. When I went back up later, the Offset Master Cams I placed looked far more secure. I've had Totems pull on two other occasions also. The Offset Master cam's cams have much larger range in size. Their T construction allows then to fit into some scars better also.

 Believe me, you'll have to pry my Totems from my cold, dead hands, but the Offset Master Cams are good enough, in enough cases, that I will have two sets on all my wall routes from now on (and I own 4 complete sets of Totems))

Thanks Mark!

Will S · · Joshua Tree · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 1,053

On the El Cap routes I've done, I placed the blue/green hybrid alien twice as often as any other offset. I stopped doing aid walls a year or so after metolius started making hybrids, so I've never carried those, maybe in the "master cam" single stem configuration they'd be worth having due to a smaller cam angle (do they even make their hybrids in single stem? I've only seen the u-stem version in person). 

Next used was probably equal between blue/black and green/yellow. 

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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