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Thacher Ratings: Need Your Public Feedback


Original Post
MikeH · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 768

As very few people climbed routes at Thacher before the public opening, the ratings are problemic as they are based on a small sample of opinions. Some ratings are like western sport areas (generally what the area is modelled after), and others are rated more close to the Gunks as it is geographically close. Since Thacher is only found on GunksApps and will not be here in detail on MP, you can use this thread to give your opinion on climbs you did and what you think the true rating should be. Feedback will be submitted to the TCC and the GunksApps guidebook will get updated.

To start things off the following climbs are reported as sandbagged by some:

Permian Extinction - probably an 11 and not a 10d?

Under the Cedar Tree - harder than a 10a

Rachel Boo variation - was showing 5.5 in GunksApps in the first two weeks but has been updated to 5.8. so this one has been solved.

Manly-us - more like a 10c than a 10a

Sea Scorpian Sandwich - more like a 10b or 10c than a 10a

Cosmik Debris - could be a 10b instead of a 10a

Please give your opinions. Thanks!


Scott Lang · · Albany · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 10

most of the grades seem about right to me - the glaring exception being under the cedar tree (10a).  

i most likely missed the key beta but the move to the jug/fossil felt significantly harder than anything on bromodosis (11a).

Zach Swanson · · Newton, MA · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 38
MikeH wrote:

Since Thacher is only found on GunksApps and will not be here in detail on MP

Obviously someone can't just copy the material and put it on here but otherwise, why wouldn't the routes be on Mountain Project?

Ryan Spooner · · Manchester, NH · Joined May 2017 · Points: 0

Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs at the Mossy Corner area seemed sandbagged. It was 10d according to the app, but felt significantly harder than Permian extinction (also 10d, and reasonably so imo). Plus, it might be a bit harder now since I broke off a nice incut sidepull at the second-to-last bolt!

MikeH · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 768
Zach Swanson wrote:

Obviously someone can't just copy the material and put it on here but otherwise, why wouldn't the routes be on Mountain Project?

Depends on what the community does over time, in the near term it's not on MP, and it needs the rating data now in the near term this month.  

It's possible a hold came off Under the Cedar Tree. Definitely some of these routes will get harder as they get worked.

Ron Birk · · Boston, MA · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 3,467
MikeH wrote:

Depends on what the community does over time, in the near term it's not on MP, and it needs the rating data now in the near term this month.  

Is anything/anyone stopping users from adding thacher and the routes on MP?

Gunks Apps · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 225
Michael P wrote:

Seems like an odd request to make on mountainproject.... but maybe I am missing something.

I submitted Thacher Park information to mountain project and I was told they would build a Thacher Page, but that was three weeks ago and the page still isn't up.

Regarding publishing Thacher information on MP: 

All of the info in the Gunks Apps app came from the TCC developers. 50% of the app purchase price goes directly back to the TCC. I would hope that people support the app and the TCC and use crowd sourced info from MP as a supplement. Guidebook authors work hard and deserve support for what they have provided to the community. 

Nicholas Hernandez · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 296

A TON OF WORK went into getting this place open, over 4 years worth in fact. The guide app is only $10 and well worth giving a few bucks to help support the cause.

For those looking for general info such as parking, approach and what you need to know climbing at Thacher this article was created with help from board members at the TCC - http://www.timetoclimb.com/climbing/thacher-state-park-the-northeasts-newest-sport-climbing-area/


the schmuck · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 110

Not taking a position here, after all I climbed at the gunks and daks for only one short season 20 years ago, but there are still plenty of folks without smart phones...so no ability to download aps. If the developers oppose posting on MP, and I don't blame them, why not a purchasable PDF download as an option?

Brian · · North Kingstown, RI · Joined Sep 2001 · Points: 650

So we are held hostage by not getting Thacher route information unless we buy an app?  Isn't that what MP is suppose to be for?  What other area can't be on MP unless you buy the guidebook?  

AndySalo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2016 · Points: 0
Brian wrote:

So we are held hostage by not getting Thacher route information unless we buy an app?  Isn't that what MP is suppose to be for?  What other area can't be on MP unless you buy the guidebook?  

Try reading the GunksApps response: clearly, its stated that all info was submitted to Mtn Proj.  

Gunks Apps · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 225
AndySalo wrote:

Try reading the GunksApps response: clearly, its stated that all info was submitted to Mtn Proj.  

"I submitted Thacher Park information to mountain project and I was told they would build a Thacher Page, but that was three weeks ago and the page still isn't up."

Gunks Apps · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 225
Brian wrote:

So we are held hostage by not getting Thacher route information unless we buy an app?  Isn't that what MP is suppose to be for?  What other area can't be on MP unless you buy the guidebook?  

Brian,

So we are held hostage by not getting Thacher route information unless we buy an app?  No, read the response above

Isn't that what MP is suppose to be for? I don't think the puprose of Mountain Project is to circumvent supporting local guidebook authors for their efforts

What other area can't be on MP unless you buy the guidebook?  None, read the response above

Christian Fracchia

Brian · · North Kingstown, RI · Joined Sep 2001 · Points: 650

Sorry it sounded like from your response that they weren't putting up the pages at all not that they were just late in doing so.  

Gunks Apps wrote: "I don't think the puprose of Mountain Project is to circumvent supporting local guidebook authors for their efforts."  

Not their intent but that is what happens.  In many cases the "print guidebook" function in MP is better than the local, often outdated, guidebook.  I can't speak for any phone guidebooks.  

Michael P · · Pittsburgh · Joined Nov 2015 · Points: 75
Gunks Apps wrote:

I submitted Thacher Park information to mountain project and I was told they would build a Thacher Page, but that was three weeks ago and the page still isn't up.

Regarding publishing Thacher information on MP: 

All of the info in the Gunks Apps app came from the TCC developers. 50% of the app purchase price goes directly back to the TCC. I would hope that people support the app and the TCC and use crowd sourced info from MP as a supplement. Guidebook authors work hard and deserve support for what they have provided to the community. 

I did a decently thorough search of the gunksapp website and the gunksapp page on the apple store before posting but I didn't see any of this information about revenue sharing.  Knowing about that would be a big factor in my decision to purchase a guidebook app.  I think you should prominently display that info all over your sites and pages.  Apologies if it is there somewhere and I overlooked it.

climbthatcher.org almost mentions the arrangement.

-mike

MikeH · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 768

Yes, 50% does go to the TCC to help fund things like expanding beyond 56 routes in the future. Considering it's only 10$ for the guidebook for life and only 6$ parking fee per CAR once the machines are up and running at the park, that is cheaper than a Mohonk day pass, then only 6$ per car each day in the future after. Not a bad deal. As for the Thacher area page on MP that will help channel comments and discussion onto a proper area page. GunksApps is initiating that effort as mentioned. 

Having an Empire Pass for NYS parks could reduce your visits to Thacher to $0 after you bought the guidebook. This is especially important for locals who will be able to visit several times per week in good weather in order to train or get strong. And to keep up the core strength they can mix it with visits to The Edge and Albany Indoor Rock Gym during rainy days and most of the cold part of the year. Thacher is closed from Nov 1st to May 1st due to rare bat habitat issues.

Gunks Apps · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 225
Michael P wrote:

I did a decently thorough search of the gunksapp website and the gunksapp page on the apple store before posting but I didn't see any of this information about revenue sharing. -mike

Thanks Mike, We just updated our website to reflect the revenue Gunks Apps does. ie. We also give 10% of Trapps/Nears Routes/Bouldering app price back to the Mohonk Preserve and 10% of Gov Stable back to FrOGS.

Christian

worth russell · · Brooklyn, NY · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 40

Under the cedar tree Isn't a 10a anywhere. The climb is sustained 9+ with a stinger 10d/11a crux. I hung at the crux and still couldn't find any single way to make it happen that was anywhere near 10a. 

worth russell · · Brooklyn, NY · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 40

good climb though. We really enjoyed it. The grades 9 and under seemed spot on just as an fyi

MikeH · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 768
worth russell wrote:

Under the cedar tree Isn't a 10a anywhere. The climb is sustained 9+ with a stinger 10d/11a crux. I hung at the crux and still couldn't find any single way to make it happen that was anywhere near 10a. 

Thanks, more detail helps when they update the guidebook. Maybe a key 1/2" flakey crimp came off at some point, it wasn't my route so I don't remember what was there before.

GS Gibbons · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 20

Had a great weekend climbing at Thacher. Much thanks to all the people that put in hard work getting access, building trails, and bolting routes. Our group felt a lot of the ratings were pretty on point with the exception of Little Black Rain Cloud having more of a 10a start as opposed to 5.9. A really awesome climb that I would also increase the stars in the guidebook to 3. I'm really stoked this line was bolted and I had a chance to get up there. Wondering why the first bolt is so high though, took some work to get it even with a stick clip. Kayah was also a favorite with nice airy moves up the arete to start! Crinoid stem may be 5.8 instead of 5.9. 

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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