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Mammut magic slings???

coldfinger · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 55

Lots off way off topic chat so far, so.......

The 120cm is the length to buy this as it has a huge advantage over any other material (6mm, nylon, dyneema): it is way way easier to untie your master point overhand knot.  When dealing with multipitch two point anchors (bolts or screws) it's pretty ideal. 

Unlike dyneema it doesn't lose strength when knotted and is way more durable  

Nick Drake · · Kent, WA · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 651
coldfinger wrote:

Lots off way off topic chat so far, so.......

The 120cm is the length to buy this as it has a huge advantage over any other material (6mm, nylon, dyneema): it is way way easier to untie your master point overhand knot.  When dealing with multipitch two point anchors (bolts or screws) it's pretty ideal. 

Unlike dyneema it doesn't lose strength when knotted and is way more durable  

Did it become a bit more pliable with use?

coldfinger · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 55

A bit, but not much and that is not a bad thing if you are not tying any other knot than an overhand. As long as your master point biner captures the strands the knot is 100% good. I did notice that as the aramid sheath begins to wear and lose its coating that knots were a bit harder to untie. 

Dan Africk · · Brooklyn, New York · Joined May 2014 · Points: 275
coldfinger wrote:

A bit, but not much and that is not a bad thing if you are not tying any other knot than an overhand. As long as your master point biner captures the strands the knot is 100% good. I did notice that as the aramid sheath begins to wear and lose its coating that knots were a bit harder to untie. 

Are you sure the sheath is Aramid? Mammut doesn't say on their website what it's made out of, the REI site says it's Nylon (in the Q&A section), but I wouldn't be shocked of that's incorrect.

David K · · The Road, Sometimes Chattan… · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 423

One of my climbing partners has some magic slings. They're very stiff.

The real benefit I see to the magic slings is that they're more sun/weather/abrasion resistant. I'm not sure that outweighs the negatives though.

Nut Tool · · Portland, OR · Joined Aug 2017 · Points: 0
John Wilder wrote:

If you want a sling that you can cut and keep a 22kn rating when knotted that isnt so stiff (and expensive), pick up some Edelrid Tech Web. Cheaper than dyneema, thinner than nylon. Made of both.

+1. Great stuff, cheap enough to replace frequently. 

LB Edwards · · Austin, TX · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 216

I have been using the 120cm magic slings and I like it. The stiffness gets softer over time and the retaining strength gives me piece of mind for my extended rappel and PAS as well as an anchor on chains.

Michael Diep · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 0
LB Edwards wrote:

I have been using the 120cm magic slings and I like it. The stiffness gets softer over time and the retaining strength gives me piece of mind for my extended rappel and PAS as well as an anchor on chains.

do you still put it around your shoulder or does it get soft enough to manage on the harness?

LB Edwards · · Austin, TX · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 216
Michael Diep wrote:

do you still put it around your shoulder or does it get soft enough to manage on the harness?

I'll sling it around the bottom of my stack around the shoulder to use for the anchor (I keep single biner & slings for cam extensions on top of that). All personal preference. I keep the one I use for a pass hitched on the hard points and down through my legs into the back rack.

Dan Africk · · Brooklyn, New York · Joined May 2014 · Points: 275
John Wilder wrote:

If you want a sling that you can cut and keep a 22kn rating when knotted that isnt so stiff (and expensive), pick up some Edelrid Tech Web. Cheaper than dyneema, thinner than nylon. Made of both.

FYI, I think most if not all dyneema slings are actually a blend of nylon and dyneema. I believe the colored part is nylon, the white part is dyneema. I first read this about Bluewater Titan slings, but I think it's true about most or all dyneema slings, whether the manufacturer advertises this fact or not.

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,492
Dan Africk wrote:

FYI, I think most if not all dyneema slings are actually a blend of nylon and dyneema. I believe the colored part is nylon, the white part is dyneema. I first read this about Bluewater Titan slings, but I think it's true about most or all dyneema slings, whether the manufacturer advertises this fact or not.

This is correct. Also, Dyneema and Spectra are the same type of fiber just from different suppliers.

Melanie Shea · · Colorado Springs · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 10

120 magic sling is nice for extending rappels and cleaning anchors and such, it gets a little softer and is the easiest sling to work with when wearing gloves

Dan Africk · · Brooklyn, New York · Joined May 2014 · Points: 275
John Wilder wrote:

edit: The Mammut Magic Sling is likely to have a nylon sheath and aramid core, similar to the Tech Web. Mammut's tech is essentially the same thing as the Tech Web, except its stiffer, more expensive, and bulkier than the Edelrid version. 

Thanks for clarifying about the Edelrid tech web. Mammut says that the magic sling has a dyneema core, so that's one thing we know for sure. I think you're also right about the nylon sheath, but I haven't seen that confirmed aside from the REI page.

I personally won't buy or trust anything from Edelrid since I had one of their 'slider' locking carabiners fail, and they refused to issue a recall or warning even after admitting it was a known issue.. but that's a rant for another day..

BigB · · Red Rock, NV · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 340
LB Edwards wrote:

...All personal preference. I keep the one I use for a pass hitched on the hard points and down through my legs into the back rack.

PAS thong

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,492
BigB wrote:

PAS thong

Also known as a "newbie thong".

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,492
John Wilder wrote:

That said, you cant tie a regular dyneema sling (with white showing) into a knot as the dyneema will slip and the know will fail. It is a known limitation of dyneema slings.

John, I know you know this, but your statement - as written - is what leads newbies to believe they can't tie a masterpoint in a Dyneema blend sling, or knot it in use at any time.

So, newbies realding this thread, better to say: Dyneema slings can't be cut e.g. to use as a rap sling, AND TIED BACK INTO A LOOP, as the knot will not hold.

Knotting ANY sling to shorten it is fine in normal climbing situations.

Zacks · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 65
Gunkiemike wrote:

John, I know you know this, but your statement - as written - is what leads newbies to believe they can't tie a masterpoint in a Dyneema blend sling, or knot it in use at any time.

So, newbies realding this thread, better to say: Dyneema slings can't be cut e.g. to use as a rap sling, AND TIED BACK INTO A LOOP, as the knot will not hold.

Knotting ANY sling to shorten it is fine in normal climbing situations.

except that if the sling actually did brake the whole point of the knot is to make it redundant, I know a broken sling is unlikely but wear and tear sharp edges ect, things happen.  So if the sling broke it would be just like a sling tied back into a loop.  Sure maybe the dyneema knot would hold, but also maybe it wouldn't, why bother when other options are so easily available, not to mension untying skinny loaded dyneema knots is annoying.

if you wanna go overboard, there is always the blue water titan runner.  its a mix of spectra and nylon so it holds knots, half way between nylon and dyneema for bulk factor and they are rated to 27kn so even after you lose some strength with knots it will still be pretty high 27-40% is still 16.2kn... more than my cams lol

https://www.rei.com/product/474003/bluewater-titanspectra-runner-916

eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525
Gunkiemike wrote:

John, I know you know this, but your statement - as written - is what leads newbies to believe they can't tie a masterpoint in a Dyneema blend sling, or knot it in use at any time.

So, newbies realding this thread, better to say: Dyneema slings can't be cut e.g. to use as a rap sling, AND TIED BACK INTO A LOOP, as the knot will not hold.

Knotting ANY sling to shorten it is fine in normal climbing situations.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that dyneema slings can be tied back into a loop using a triple fisherman's bend. But I guess this may only apply to dyneema/nylon blend cord. My understanding was that the triple fisherman's bend had enough holding power to change the failure mode from unraveling to breaking at the knot. 

David K · · The Road, Sometimes Chattan… · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 423
John Wilder wrote:

I was referring to my first post, and the advantages of the tech web, again referenced in my first post. You cannot cut and then tie a dyneema sling into a loop and expect it to hold under load. 

I've seen people do this on rap stations with various knots and a quick bounce test always results in the knot slipping. Maybe one knot or the other would hold, but I wouldn't count on it. Better to either girth hitch the sewn loop or use nylon which includes tech web/magic sling. 

Does this apply to all knots in dyneema, though? I.e. if we're using a quad with extension-limiting knots, can we expect the extension-limiting knots to hold if a bolt breaks? (If not, this would be reason to clip three strands of the quad instead of two).

ebmudder · · Bronx, NY · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 55
David Kerkeslager wrote:

Does this apply to all knots in dyneema, though? I.e. if we're using a quad with extension-limiting knots, can we expect the extension-limiting knots to hold if a bolt breaks? (If not, this would be reason to clip three strands of the quad instead of two).

isn't the strength of the quad in the realm of 40kN? Unless your VW Beetle took a factor 2 on it, how could a 4-strand knot possibly fail?

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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