microaggression? or having the overreaction?

Nice plug at the end for No Man's Land film fest - I hadn't heard of this event. Looking forward to it. September in Carbondale (and touring). http://nomanslandfilmfestival.org/

Here's some advice for female climbers, or male climbers, or for anyone else in the world:

You'll be a lot happier in life if you wear you want, and not worry what other people think

ViperScale wrote:

I agree get rid of the booty shorts we should all just climb naked.

Even at Vedauwoo? That's a rash decision.

Oh, for the love of...

climbing friend,

perhaps there are some good point in the article. why does she having hating for the fishanrat and his site weinerbends.com?

"You bet Andrew Bisharat wrote a piece about it in National Geographic’s adventure blog because he jizzes all over anything bro-club.

            One second, I just puked looking at all of Bisharat’s writing on Nat Geo’s blog."

utilizing this foul language, so dirty, so dirty, it trivializes yes the difficulties some men encounter after certain age utilizing hours of meditation and great concentration to achieve the glorious half-erection?

perhaps we may not be quite negative, and instead form circle and all holding hands or perhaps do the hugging one another, rewarding each other with 5 minutes uninterrupted eye contact? the great compassion flowing outward from your heart in all direction? yes? I for one would like a hug.

Content aside, I can't take this article seriously regardless of what the author is wearing. To waver from a fairly well thought out argument to statements like "You bet Andrew Bisharat wrote a piece about it in National Geographic’s adventure blog because he jizzes all over anything bro-club...One second, I just puked looking at all of Bisharat’s writing on Nat Geo’s blog" is just not doing an argument any favors. 

Dammit, Aleks!

Momoface wrote:

Content aside, I can't take this article seriously regardless of what the author is wearing. To waver from a fairly well thought out argument to statements like "You bet Andrew Bisharat wrote a piece about it in National Geographic’s adventure blog because he jizzes all over anything bro-club...One second, I just puked looking at all of Bisharat’s writing on Nat Geo’s blog" is just not doing an argument any favors. 

that's kind of my take on it.  she just seems really angry about absolutely everything and is all over the place.  it makes you just tune her out pretty much immediately.

doligo wrote:

Coming from the East Coast, I'm always shocked how non-nonchalantly people use this very non-pc "oriental" term around here in Colorado even in professional settings... 

Because us real "orientals" rarely take offense and often use the term without second thought.

Manufactured outrage.

DLDeville wrote:

I actually totally agree with the bit about 24 HHH in Reel Rock 10. I had the same thoughts watching that one actually; there were definitely tons of female climbers at the comp pullin' hard, but the only female appearances in the film that I remember were the drunk groupies. 

I dunno, I felt like it was more about the dramatized competition between a bunch of sponsored climbers who were competing that year rather than showcasing a bunch of randos. 

BrianWS wrote:

Because us real "orientals" rarely take offense and often use the term without second thought.

Manufactured outrage.

climbing friend,

The chinamen is not the issue ... Also, dude, chinamen is not the preferred nomenclature...

Aleks Zebastian wrote:

climbing friend,

The chinamen is not the issue ... Also, dude, chinamen is not the preferred nomenclature...

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

"Jokes like this come from a place of an American imperialist attitude where people assume that they can have an opinion on another culture’s practices. This joke also harbors criticism and judgment towards a way of dress that is not up for opinion or debate by white westerners"

Fine, but that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Since when are we not allowed to have an opinion? That's fucking ridiculous! Isn't there a saying that goes "you're entitled to your own opinion". I mean obviously some people's opinions don't matter, and obviously my opinion is always right, but everybody has an opinion. Does she want us to live in a world like this or is she just angry and spraying bullshit all over the internet

slim wrote:

that's kind of my take on it.  she just seems really angry about absolutely everything and is all over the place.  it makes you just tune her out pretty much immediately.

She is a local around here and is always posting hate articles just like this on our local climbing pages and it's really annoying to pretty much everyone. I think she hates anyone who isn't a diehard feminist or disagrees with her view points on what she writes. 

BrianWS wrote:

Because us real "orientals" rarely take offense and often use the term without second thought.

Manufactured outrage.

Bullshit.

Who made you the official voice of "real" Asians?

If you want to use that term to refer to yourself and fellow Asians then that's your prerogative.  But just as if an Arab were to use Raghead to refer to himself an other Arabs, don't be surprised if you catch flack for it. 

I'll just leave this right here..

http://eveningsends.com/when-feminism-goes-too-far/

(walks away with hands in pockets, whistling innocently..)

Mike Mellenthin wrote:

It's ironic to write an article that spends a decent amount of time taking Cedar Wright to task for something he said on a podcast once and then turn around and talk about "oriental women".

To be clear, I think the the author just didn't know better and I don't think it's a mark on her character. But the gravity of her mistake is roughly the same as what she's calling out Cedar Wright for.

I also think she's broadly right about the representation of women in climbing media and about certain other climbing media personalities, but I already thought those things before reading this article. I'm not sure it would convince me if I didn't, but maybe that's not the point.

I re-read through the entire article to find where the author refers to people of Asian background as "oriental".  I couldn't find any examples.  I CTRL+F'ed the term "orient" and all I got were 2 hits where the author mentions Orientalism.

Where does the author refer to people as Oriental???

doligo wrote:

Coming from the East Coast, I'm always shocked how non-nonchalantly people use this very non-pc "oriental" term around here in Colorado even in professional settings... 

Unfortunately, it appears that many people do not seem to recognize racism against Asians as racism.

Go figure.

Even some of the most ardently anti-racism people fail in this specific aspect, and, frustratingly, if it gets pointed out to them their reaction, more often than not, is one of offense and defiance rather than contrition and making any sincere efforts to better themselves.

Seriously though, I'm glad she at least linked to Kathy's article. It covers the same subject (in general, not Cedar's comment specifically), but without the vitriol and feminist nonsense. Much better written too.

Here's the direct link, so you can check it out if you want without giving that other crap any more traffic: https://fortheloveofclimbing.com/2015/12/28/the-woman-climber/

reboot wrote:

I read up on what the fuss is all about. And in this case, I'm not sure switching to "Asian women" helps at all: it includes a huge (majority) population of non-Muslims while excluding non-Asian Muslims, and crucially does nothing to clarify whether Muslims in western countries are included. 

Using "Oriental" to refer to people is offensive.  Using it to refer inanimate objects is OK (oriental rugs, etc.)  

As for your argument of specificity, the term "Oriental" offers no advantage there.  That term originally referred to the part of the world that today we would label the Middle East.  Where the the Orient Express go?  It didn't go anywhere near China, or Japan, or Korea, or Vietnam, etc.  It went to what today is called Istanbul.  The Department of Oriental Studies at Oxford University studies matter pertaining to the Middle East.

Using "Oriental" to refer to people, offensiveness notwithstanding, does not reduce any ambiguity regarding which groups of people you are referring to.