Beal Escaper.. thoughts?

If you dont trust the escaper you can use this method https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Ute5c2BVk

Clever system, however If I didn't trust the escaper there is nothing inspiring confident with this Fifi system. Rope snags look almost guaranteed with the Fifi. If the the rope is unloaded one time with a few inches of slack the elastic is trying to pop the Fifi out of there. With the escaper, that same scenario has to happen at least 8 times before release occurs. As mentioned above icing up is a concern and stuck ropes probably more likely than with an overhand knot. 

greg rosselol wrote:

Clever system, however If I didn't trust the escaper there is nothing inspiring confident with this Fifi system. Rope snags look almost guaranteed with the Fifi. If the the rope is unloaded one time with a few inches of slack the elastic is trying to pop the Fifi out of there. With the escaper, that same scenario has to happen at least 8 times before release occurs. As mentioned above icing up is a concern and stuck ropes probably more likely than with an overhand knot. 

Whoosh

Great concept that must be used with caution.  I wonder if every unloading of the Escaper results in letting out a little rope, or does a soft unweighting not disturb it.  It seems if enough rope weight were present it wouldn't release every time.

Tree guys use removable anchors called friction/cambium savers that could be made to work with the Escaper for anchoring around a tree.

When will they be available?

Brocky, Yes, a "soft unweighting" will disturb it. or at least that is what happened when I played around with it. A piece of elastic is what releases the chinese finger trap part.  I think the rule for this thing will be, once you weight it get to the anchor without unweighting it.

Agreed... Likely that most of us will treat this style of rappel much like we do simu-rap.  Where you've gotta keep the rope weighted till my partner is ready to do the same.  Though, I'm fairly sure most will be far more cautious during the operation.

Don't bounce on your rappel :o

Keep in mind each rappeller will unload the rope after their descent. Each rappeller should be cinching up the escaper before they rapp to prevent an unexpected "retrieval"...

I've been on rapps where uneven terrain or jams or adjustment of the descender/rope resulted in unloading of the rope. This should be fairly safe if one remains cognizant of keeping the rope loaded at all times. I'd be more concerned about wear of the escaper against sharp rock.

Anonymous wrote:

Sounds like it's being marketed as an emergency escape(r) device, however, and this to be on their insurance company's safe side? Of course, people are going to want to use it all the time.

If it's an emergency escaper I would want it to be even more bulletproof. I might be willing to risk a stuck rope in situations I encounter, because there are usually workarounds available. But in an emergency situation, I wouldn't have time for the workarounds.

The real question: can we simul-rappel with 6mm ropes with the Fifi system?

I feel like a lot of new climbing gear is I sold to make you safer and stop you from doing sketchy stuff, usually at the cost of simplicity. Kudos to beal for selling a product to actually help you do sketchy stuff. I say if you want one, better order it now before the lawyers figure out what they're actually selling

Some of the videos are so detailed it was easy to see exactly how the Escaper is built.  I went home and sewed up five of them!    I like to hand sew some of my own gear using heavy dyneema thread.  Mine are exactly the same as Beal's other than my bungee cord setup is slightly different.

They work great!  I haven't tried them wet or icy yet.  I have used mine 29 times doing full 60m to 70m rappels.  It pulls down everytime.  I have had it hang up twice after it dropped to the base of the rappel.  I had to scramble up fourth class territory to retrieve it from either jumbled rocks or cracks.

It does hang up somewhat easier than a double rope rappel.  It hangs up a lot less than anticipated however.  I love it!  Just make sure you know how to lead a stuck rope placing gear and belayed by both the top rope and the bottom rope tied off to your partner or anchor.  You can use a prusik to accomplish this just be sure it won't slip and burn through!  Better yet use a Wild Country Revo on the rope as you ascend since it won't slip and catches in both directions.

I would only recommend the Escaper to experienced climbers who have done a lot of rappeling.

In the second photo the top follow-through knot is Beal's method to connect the climbing rope to the Escaper.  I use the triple sheet bend shown below.  It is a lot smaller profile knot but goodness you had better know what you are doing!  I had to put kevlar stitches into the dyneema where the knot is so it would have sufficient friction to work.  Without the kevlar the climbing rope would incrementally slip through the knot every time I bounced my weight on the climbing rope.  At the same time the knot in the dyneema would cinch down so tightly it was impossible to untie. (don't worry that is a just a raggedy rope end cleaned off a cliff - not a rope I'm climbing on)

To rappel from a tree you must use a sling and thread the escaper through that (no carabiner needed).  When I did it I wrapped a runner around the tree and ran the Escaper through the open ends. The sling was retrieved by having a long cord tied to the sling that pulled it off the tree after the Escaper rope had pulled free of the sling.   The setup is show in the bottom photo.  The water bottle is the tree.  The Escaper has just disengaged and is ready to come down.  The climbing rope is out of sight on the right hand side of the frame.  The green cord needs to be twice as long as shown.  At least least as long as the Escaper rope (purple in this case)

I just got my Escaper in the mail. I have few thoughts on it without testing it, which will wait until I'm a bit better healed from carpal tunnel surgery.

Initial thoughts:

1. It's more compact and lighter than I imagined it'd be

2. It'll get hung up when pulled down. The capture webbing on it gives a lot of opportunity to catch on things. Is the likelihood higher than an entire second rope/cord? I dunno

3. I would want something like this in the alpine rather than cragging. But alpine climbing may be its least appropriate use, as alpine terrain may be where it is most likely to get hung up on stuff. It also may be where it is most likely to be loaded and unloaded while on rappel. The instructions do address this by telling you to put a stopper knot in the tail of it for the first to rap. Then have the first down test the retrieval with the knot in place before the last down resets the device and removes the stopper knot.

4. Stupid American 2-point anchors limit its by-the-book utility, as it is designed to be used on single point lower offs. This may further limit its use in the alpine where anchors may be funky

5. If it ever fails to release, jugging your rope is going to be a new level of scary

6. It could allow the use of a 30m or 40m rope on routes that don't traditionally require two ropes for rappels and do not have mandatory long pitches.

BWenner wrote:

Keep in mind each rappeller will unload the rope after their descent. Each rappeller should be cinching up the escaper before they rapp to prevent an unexpected "retrieval"...

I've been on rapps where uneven terrain or jams or adjustment of the descender/rope resulted in unloading of the rope. This should be fairly safe if one remains cognizant of keeping the rope loaded at all times. I'd be more concerned about wear of the escaper against sharp rock.

as i was not going to comment when this question/produict 1st showed up, Given how it is a dangerous activity made more so by this Escaper thingy, 

What rgold said And  this ckat, quoted above makes it 1/2 way to the point.

this thingy is not good on slabby or even near vertical rock where it will get hung up,then, more tugging and swearing and worse options...                                                                               The potential to start the retrieval process while de-tangling or fighting hi-winds,- A minor emergency of some kind, anyone ever get a shirt stuck in rap device?                                                 I can think of a whole bunch of times Ive taken the full weight off the rap line, stood off to the side, giving a firemans back up  ,     .      .   .   .  the point is to stop making it complicated.

Where did you order it?

https://www.cham3s.com/en/slings-webbing-lanyards/18782-beal-escaper.html

Can't find them for sale in U.S. yet :/

Many Euro sites deliver to the US. Certain sites like cham3s, barrabes, telemark-pyrenees, and a few others typically get to me on the US East Coast faster than anyone besides backcountry. You do pay shipping costs, but they are often more than offset by the deduction of VAT. Petzl, Scarpa, and Sportiva in particular are often much cheaper if bought from Euro shops. You can order $800 at a time duty free. Having said all that, if all you are ordering is an Escaper, I doubt you'll save any money when buying from Europe

Liberty Mountain has them....

http://www.libertymountain.com/products/5469/491965

Thanks!