is an overview picture of the climb with the route and belay stations enough beta that you can't onsight and only flash?


Original Post
Jeremy Justus · · Steamboat Springs, CO · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 0

title pretty much asks the whole question, did a few multi pitch climbs last weekend where i used a photo showing the entire climb with the route lined out and belay stations marked with an x.  just curious if that is enough beta that i didn't onsight it, or if it's still considered onsight because i don't know how you make or even find the climb without it.


thanks!

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 2,740

Does anyone really get hung up on this terminology any more?

Jeremy Justus · · Steamboat Springs, CO · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 0

I'm sure some people do. Mostly curious as im trying to add to my tick list to hopefully make it easier to find some partners on here and to also keep a log on climbs I've done. Both are options under lead so just trying to be accurate

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 275

You onsighted it.

Eliot Augusto · · Boulder, CO · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 60

If you felt you onsighted it, you did. If you felt you flashed it, you did. Why should we tell you what you did?

Jeremy Justus · · Steamboat Springs, CO · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 0

Thanks Frank

and Eliot I didn't even know there was a difference till I was trying to put some climbs on my tick list, not gonna pretend to know what they are and what constitutes as beta. I personally only care if I send the climb and not about onsight/flash but that doesn't mean i don't like to be accurate and knowledgeable

Nick Drake · · Newcastle, WA · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 483

Unless someone describes how to do a movement or where individual holds are I wouldn't call it an onsight. 

eli poss · · Durango, Co · Joined May 2014 · Points: 456

If you climbed it without falling, hanging, aiding, grabbing draws and you've never climbed it before then it's an onsight. The whole onsight vs flash thing is essentially just BS until you are climbing super hard where having the beta can actually make or break an onsight attempt. If you aren't climbing 5.13 then it doesn't really matter.

Mark E Dixon · · Sprezzatura, Someday · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 549
Jeremy Justus wrote:

i used a photo showing the entire climb with the route lined out and belay stations marked with an x.  


If you used the new Denver climbing guide, it's definitely still an onsight. :-)

kevin deweese · · Oakland, Ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 350

Did you have a topo? Did you have a rack description? Did you see anyone on the route ahead of you? Did you look at any pictures of the awesome pitches online prior to going out? Did you use approach beta that helped you know what to carry and what to leave at the car? Descent beta that let you know whether to bring approach shoes or leave them on the ground? Did you know whether to bring two ropes in case it's a rap route instead of a walk off? Did you use weather reports to know if you had to carry cold weather gear with you?

all of these questions have an effect upon how "easy" a route will be based upon weight and preparation. They also show how stupid the distinctions are. 

TL;DR you do you boo

Tom Sherman · · Bristol, RI · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 416

Sounds like a pinkpoint 

Brandon.Phillips · · Portola, CA · Joined May 2011 · Points: 55

I think consensus is that looking at the topo is ok. 

David Kerkeslager · · Brooklyn, NY · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 45

If anyone gives you trouble about the distinction between "onsight" and "flash", stop talking to them.

Jason Todd · · Cody, WY · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 958

Onsight.  

All the flashes belong to Aleks.

John Barritt · · OKC · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 1,053

For a true onsight you must be taken blindfolded to the base of the route...........;)

eli poss · · Durango, Co · Joined May 2014 · Points: 456
John Barritt wrote:

For a true onsight you must be taken blindfolded to the base of the route...........;)

you also can't look up at the route to preview the moves ahead. And tape, chalk, and sticky rubber are all aid so no onsight unless you're naked free soloing au natural 

Old lady H · · Boise, Idaho · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 265
John Barritt wrote:

For a true onsight you must be taken blindfolded to the base of the route...........;)

Not quite, but close!

I really enjoyed going to Hells Canyon, with very close to zero info. About all I can tell you, is I climbed two routes, sport, seemed kinda easy, and the bear didn't eat me. And it's effing hot in August. 

Can't exactly put those on the tick list, eh?

EDIT to add: and, based on the photo of my son climbing there, that I did put on MP, some genius on here decided I was Elenor, lol!

OLH

Mark E Dixon · · Sprezzatura, Someday · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 549
Old lady H wrote:

EDIT to add: and, based on the photo of my son climbing there, that I did put on MP, some genius on here decided I was Elenor, lol!

OLH

Not sure I'd brag about being mistaken for Elena

Old lady H · · Boise, Idaho · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 265
Mark E Dixon wrote:

Not sure I'd brag about being mistaken for Elena

Hmm...weren't you one of the many? It was fun to point out to who ever it was (I don't remember) that they were looking at my son. 

Besides, except for the few new ones who crop up and dump me in there, I think you know me as me by now...

bwahaha. OLH

ViperScale · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 235

It was all a dream you never really climbed anything.

Old lady H · · Boise, Idaho · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 265
ViperScale wrote:

It was all a dream you never really climbed anything.

You might be right. ;-)

August. Very hot. A quick, first trip to Hells Canyon, a beautiful and remote place.. .with sport climbing, no guidebook, and very little beta.

We drove over at night, past a 280,000 acre blaze, with flames shooting high. 

Traveling onto smaller and smaller roads, no traffic whatever for hours, eventually, not even any distant lights. Many zigs, zags, and full stops for wildlife.

We arrived in the middle of the night, and I just flopped on the ground to "sleep", but instead, I lay there watching meteors and distant lightning, in a sky very, very packed with stars.

And listened to the really big dude shamble by, on the other side of the truck.

Next day, realizing we were in an orchard, and, with bear pies every ten feet on the trail, I changed which species plodded by in the night.

Climbing, you are far up above the Snake River, looking out over a huge chunk of territory. This was my first time on limestone. Sharp, actually able to smear in it, and an abundance of holds I was unused to.

Ridiculously, stupidly, brain dead hot. Dehydrated, even chugging water by the quart. Dumping water over my neck to cool down...

Climbing better than I ever had so far.

No more than 5 or 6 cars going by on the road far below, let alone any people, climbing or camping, the whole time we were there.

Very, very surreal, definitely dreamlike, and one of the most memorable trips we've had.

TL, DR: onsight, flash, grades, even routes, may not be what makes the trip.

Best, H.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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