un-necessary bolts at Rubidoux.


Original Post
Tony Yeary · · Arcadia, Califoria · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 665

I was recently bouldering at Rubidoux and was saddened  to see three bolts added to the Steck-Salathe problem on Half Dome Boulder. These bolts were, presumably added to create a 30 foot lead climb to a "route" that has been historically, either, easily top roped or "third classed": that is to say, simply bouldered. This , I hope, is not the start of a trend here at this classic bouldering venue. These bolts were -UN-necessary and and will be removed, restoring the rock to it's natural state, as best as it can. Retro bolting bouldering problems is not good practice, nor should it go UN-challenged. This kind of behavior is endangering to the history, style and ethic of the area. I hope all who climb here at Rubidoux will support the idea that climbing here continues to be either a top rope or bouldering venue at it's purest. 

Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 105

I feel your pain......  

Tony.... Somebody or more to the point.... a crew who should have known better thought it would be a good thing to turn a 5.8 50 year old top rope into a sport lead.


It lasted about 5 days. 


Look after your crag. 


Aashiq · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 0

Lets chop em!

TYeary Yeary wrote:

I was recently bouldering at Rubidoux and was saddened  to see three bolts added to the Steck-Salathe problem on Half Dome Boulder. These bolts were, presumably added to create a 30 foot lead climb to a "route" that has been historically, either, easily top roped or "third classed": that is to say, simply bouldered. This , I hope, is not the start of a trend here at this classic bouldering venue. These bolts were -UN-necessary and and will be removed, restoring the rock to it's natural state, as best as it can. Retro bolting bouldering problems is not good practice, nor should it go UN-challenged. This kind of behavior is endangering to the history, style and ethic of the area. I hope all who climb here at Rubidoux will support the idea that climbing here continues to be either a top rope or bouldering venue at it's purest.

Tony Yeary · · Arcadia, Califoria · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 665

Yeah, thanks Guy. I'm sure it was well intentioned, but totally inappropriate.

Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 105

Tony..... I find that most of today's new climbers do not have a clue about any traditions, history or ethics that are a part of the climbing world we know. 

Ask about Robbins, Chounard,  Bachar or even Dean Potter ...... one gets a blank stare and a question... "what gym do they belong to?" 

But I find many are eager to learn and know these things after they start going real climbing out in the big outdoors. 


Forever Outside · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Feb 2017 · Points: 150

I WISH SPORT CLIMBING DIDN'T EXIST AT ALL!  AMIRTIE?!? 

GDavis · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 10

Kill the pig! Spill its blood!

For real tho lame and should be chopped, and more to the point those who put them in should be drawn, quartered and be given wet willies as per trad traditions.

fireoretire · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 0

Guy... Is that "Pin scars aka Machine gun" 5.8?  That's extremely disappointing to see someone bolt that climb.  

Bill Odenthal · · Whittier,CA · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 2,650

Forever Outside aren't you the one that complimented the route and said it had great bolt placements. Kinda contradicting yourself here aren't you?

I'm guessing these bolts won't last much longer. If this is let go how many other 30ft faces will get bolted? Joe Brown, Joe Browns Helmet, Smooth Sole Wall just to name a few.

Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 105
fireoretire wrote:

Guy... Is that "Pin scars aka Machine gun" 5.8?  That's extremely disappointing to see someone bolt that climb.  

Yes.  It has been fixed now. The guys who bolted it are cool with the removal, they now understand about "how it is at Stoney" .....  I gave them some locations they could go to and bolt away.

Thats is why I feel most of this sort of stuff is done out of ignorance and not some sort of "make the world safe" motivation. 

Take care of your crags

Tim Lutz · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 0
Forever Outside wrote:

I WISH SPORT CLIMBING DIDN'T EXIST AT ALL!  AMIRTIE?!? 

I blame rap music, instagram, and Gri Gris

Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 105
Tim Lutz wrote:

I blame rap music, instagram, and Gri Gris

You forgot:  Spandex

  

fireoretire · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 0
Guy Keesee wrote:

Yes.  It has been fixed now. The guys who bolted it are cool with the removal, they now understand about "how it is at Stoney" .....  I gave them some locations they could go to and bolt away.

Thats is why I feel most of this sort of stuff is done out of ignorance and not some sort of "make the world safe" motivation. 

Take care of your crags

Nice work!

Forever Outside · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Feb 2017 · Points: 150
Bill Odenthal wrote:

Forever Outside aren't you the one that complimented the route and said it had great bolt placements. Kinda contradicting yourself here aren't you?

I'm guessing these bolts won't last much longer. If this is let go how many other 30ft faces will get bolted? Joe Brown, Joe Browns Helmet, Smooth Sole Wall just to name a few.

Yes, I was being sarcastic.  I see both sides of the picture.  Yes, it was bolted and makes a fun lead climb, I'm not going to "boulder" it unprotected and it was more fun to lead it than TR it.  Do I understand the "historical value" of the place, of course I do.  I am a little conflicted because historically, when the route may have been established, 50 years ago, there was no sport climbing, so maybe that's why it was not considered. I'm not trolling, I personally think the bolt placement was fun and safe, but I am from the new guard, with an open mind about evolution.  My comment was just a joke to the old guard that bolting is for lames.  I really don't care either way as I have climbed there a total of 3 times and have no intention on returning.  The used condoms, broken glass, cigarette butts, and gang graffiti are enough to protect the area IMHO.

Fat Dad · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 5

Wow, who does that?  Rubidoux is where I learned to climb, though it has long been on the receiving end of poor treatment from other climbers.  The unnecessary bolts at the top of Five Niner are a good example.  Bolting that problem, however, is particularly lame.  I guess climbing is only fun if you're clipping bolts?  I say chop 'em.   

Chris Owen · · Big Bear Lake · Joined Jan 2002 · Points: 9,663

Forever Outside: I think the "new guard" is off soloing El Cap or doing the Fitzroy Traverse. Bolting totally has its place, the whole idea behind a new order in climbing is to search out what hasn't been done before in terms of difficulty, and go do it - sometimes that requires pushing the establishment a bit, using crampons and not nailed boots, resorting to jammed pebbles, pounding in pitons, drilling bolts. Some people resist the change, some people embrace it. I've embraced sport climbing, besides bouldering, it's almost all I do nowadays. BUT - showing up at an already established little 5.9 boulder problem, and adding bolts for a sport lead, which apparently could sucker some poor unsuspecting newbie into a ground fall is anything but cutting edge. Local ethics aside; it dangerous and should be removed.

Forever Outside · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Feb 2017 · Points: 150
Chris Owen wrote:

Forever Outside: I think the "new guard" is off soloing El Cap or doing the Fitzroy Traverse. Bolting totally has its place, the whole idea behind a new order in climbing is to search out what hasn't been done before in terms of difficulty, and go do it - sometimes that requires pushing the establishment a bit, using crampons and not nailed boots, resorting to jammed pebbles, pounding in pitons, drilling bolts. Some people resist the change, some people embrace it. I've embraced sport climbing, besides bouldering, it's almost all I do nowadays. BUT - showing up at an already established little 5.9 boulder problem, and adding bolts for a sport lead, which apparently could sucker some poor unsuspecting newbie into a ground fall is anything but cutting edge. Local ethics aside; it dangerous and should be removed.

agreed. I'm not here to debate really.  I made a comment in sarcasm (guess i forgot to add "/s") and was called out for being a hypocrite.  
I've never bolted anything and don't plan to, so nobody shall fear my behavior.  Carry on!

Tony Yeary · · Arcadia, Califoria · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 665

Open letter to those who bolted Steck/ Salathe on Half Dome Boulder:

Please, let's meet and talk, share ideas, communicate our values and concerns. My email is tony_yeary@hotmail.com . 

Tony

John Barritt · · OKC · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 888
Tony Yeary wrote:

Open letter to those who bolted Steck/ Salathe on Half Dome Boulder:

Please, let's meet and talk, share ideas, communicate our values and concerns. My email is tony_yeary@hotmail.com . 

Tony

Translation; "Come to me so that I may beat you up".................. ;)

phylp · · Upland · Joined May 2015 · Points: 115

  I sometimes love sport climbing and I sometimes love runout R rated routes. So I tend to avoid these "to bolt or not to bolt" discussions for the most part, but this one seems to be calling to me.

"I'm not going to "boulder" it unprotected and it was more fun to lead it than TR it. "

I'm not quoting this to criticize the person who said it, but because this statement so perfectly captures the mentality that other people have that leads to silly bolting of things that make silly lead routes.  Which in an of itself is not a problem in many areas - it's easy enough to avoid routes one thinks are silly - but it does create issues in "historically" differently-climbed areas.  I know you said you don't bolt things so my comments are not directed at you, but I hope they will be food for thought for people who think it's a good idea to bolt stuff like this.

Firsly, please consider that this attitude, when applied as a reason to bolt stuff like this, is completely self centered.  Other people might prefer to boulder it or toprope it, and the bolts visually are a blight. In an urban area like this, they might also cause access issues.  It's not just about you.

Secondly, I find this whole obsession with the preference of leading over following or toproping to be a something that might bear closer self-examination.  It's like, when we lead a route,  we get some gratification out of it that we don't get if we second or toprope it.  What an interesting ego game.  For each person, that line of what makes it more fun is different.  If it's too "unprotected", it's too scary and not fun.  If it's too protected, like following or toproping, it's too safe and not fun enough.  Just like the children's story, the porridge has to be "just right".  That's why we have had these endless arguments over the years, with one person shouting "too scary", let me have my fun with more bolts, and the other person saying, too safe, you took all my fun away.

So I guess my idea for people who think,  you just HAVE to lead it or it's not FUN for you, AND you want it bolted to YOUR standard of not TOO scary, just scary ENOUGH, whatever that is, is find some developed area that fits that description, and climb those routes.  Or bolt new routes to the same standard in a new place where access issues aren't a potential problem, and there is not some long established local consensus of route setting.  

GTS · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 0

Wise words phylp

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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