Jorg Verhoeven whip


Original Post
Fehim Hasecic · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 45
ViperScale · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 165

We will never know if he would have been hurt without it since he was wearing it. Honestly he would very likely been perfectly fine minus a headache without the helmet.

Jaren Watson · · Boise, Idaho · Joined May 2010 · Points: 1,195
ViperScale wrote:

We will never know if he would have been hurt without it since he was wearing it. Honestly he would very likely been perfectly fine minus a headache without the helmet.

He hit his head hard enough his neck was stiff. I'm guessing hitting his skull that forcefully would have resulted in more than a headache.

ViperScale · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 165

Sure anytime you hit your head when you are freaking out and are tense it is going to hurt. Doesn't mean it is that big a deal though, given the video sucks but it looks like not only was the head hit after reaching the end of the fall and slowing down but he also had a hand against the wall to slow him down during the impact. Also looks like more force was likely applied to the neck due to the rotation than the impact on the head itself.

20 kN · · Hawaii · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,128

While climbing with a helmet is obviously a safer option, the correct take-away from this story is dont climb with the rope behind your leg! If he had not had the rope behind his leg, he would have never flipped upside down in the first place, thus never hitting his head either. I am amazed at how many climbers I see who put their leg behind the rope, including guys who can climb 5.13. Not only will the rope flip you upside down, but you can get really serious rope burns on your leg, even serious enough to permanently damage your hamstring, and in getting flipped upside down if your spine hits a feature on the rock you could break your back (it's happened). It's kind of a big deal that a lot of climber seem to shake off as not that important.

Mitch Alexander · · SLO, CA · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 0
ViperScale wrote:

We will never know if he would have been hurt without it since he was wearing it. Honestly he would very likely been perfectly fine minus a headache without the helmet.

Dude what. That's the worst argument against wearing a helmet. The whole point of a helmet or any safety equipment of any kind is for the time shit goes wrong. 

mpech · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 6

 the stop-motion video makes it hard to tell how hard jorg was swinging head-first into the rock.... if it was a high-speed swing, I would imagine serious spinal compression/injury despite the helmet protecting his head... helmets are still a good idea regardless... 

reboot · · . · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 50
20 kN wrote:

While climbing with a helmet is obviously a safer option, the correct take-away from this story is dont climb with the ROPE behind your leg!! If he had not had the rope behind his leg, he would have never flipped upside down in the first place, thus never hitting his head either. I am amazed at how many climbers I see who put their leg behind the rope, including guys who can climb 5.13. 

It sounded like a calculated risk for the move he was trying to execute. The take-away, if any, is if you are going to take a risk, you might as well stack the odds in your favor. 

FWIW, the only time I hit my head on a fall wason  a sport route with a consistent 30 degree overhung slab of rock. My feet were not behind the rope. Either one of my hand or feet slipped as I was making a move & I fell with a rotational momentum. I was able to absorb most of the impact with my shoulder,  but it could've been worse.

Matt Himmelstein · · Orange, California · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 95
ViperScale wrote:

We will never know if he would have been hurt without it since he was wearing it. Honestly he would very likely been perfectly fine minus a headache without the helmet.

And he wouldn't have needed it at all if he didn't fall.

You don't need seatbelts if you don't get a car accident, you don't need health insurance if you don't get sick or injured, heck you don't even need a rope if you don't fall, just look at El Cap.  I don't climb with people that won't wear a helmet, jus tlike I don't ride with people who won't wear a helmet.  I can't prevent them from doing what they want, but I can decide to limit my exposure to their choices.

Mark E Dixon · · Sprezzatura, Someday · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 234
ViperScale wrote:

Honestly he would very likely been perfectly fine minus a headache without the helmet.

This statement is laughable. 

Without a helmet, staples and a $1000 ER bill at least, IMHO.

Maybe worse.

Regardless, falling with the rope behind your leg is a bad idea.

Rui Ferreira · · Longmont, CO · Joined Jul 2003 · Points: 784

Diligently placing the rope out of the way is impractical during a sequence of finger tips and even then given the position of his left foot and location of last placement at the starting point of the fall,it is debatable whether the rope is technically behind his leg.

Benj84 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 390

Glad he was OK, glad he shared this cautionary tale,

Always good to have further reminders to watch the rope and wear the brain bucket

Charlie Proctor · · Somerville, MA · Joined Apr 2016 · Points: 5

It's really hard to tell from the video but it looks to me that he isn't climbing with the rope behind his leg but when he falls he rotates, causing his right leg to pass on the wrong side of the rope. Either way, I'm going to continue wearing a helmet whenever I'm climbing outside.

Marcelo F · · Oakland, CA · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0

For those discussing the rope behind the leg thing. This is the climber's take:

"I decided to not be scared this time and place my foot behind the rope, unfortunately the other foot decided to slip in the right moment for me to tumble down the wall headfirst."

It does sound like he did it deliberately in order to help his ascent and was fully aware of the consequences. Maybe the only takeaway from this is that R rated routes are really dangerous and you should probably wear a helmet... which we already knew... and that's okay. Just because it's a scary and unorthodox fall does not mean there is anything new and mind-blowing to learn. A climber tried a dangerous route and took a dangerous fall.

ViperScale · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 165
Marcelo F wrote:

For those discussing the rope behind the leg thing. This is the climber's take:

"I decided to not be scared this time and place my foot behind the rope, unfortunately the other foot decided to slip in the right moment for me to tumble down the wall headfirst."

It does sound like he did it deliberately in order to help his ascent and was fully aware of the consequences. Maybe the only takeaway from this is that R rated routes are really dangerous and you should probably wear a helmet... which we already knew... and that's okay. Just because it's a scary and unorthodox fall does not mean there is anything new and mind-blowing to learn. A climber tried a dangerous route and took a dangerous fall.

How is that an R rated? The part he fell on wasn't even that bad and no risk of ledge / ground fall. The route may be R rated but where he fell from was not in any way a R rated fall.

I have taken a bigger fall on a G rated route, my estimates would put it at maybe 20ish ft comparing his body to the length of the rope out and adding another 1/4 for being slightly past the piece of gear etc?

BFad · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2015 · Points: 0

1. Helmets, seat-belts, condoms. I only use 1 of the 3. Guess which one.

2. I'm stoked to see him climbing this route - great route (from what I hear), and great history

Nick Drake · · Newcastle, WA · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 438
ViperScale wrote:

How is that an R rated? The part he fell on wasn't even that bad and no risk of ledge / ground fall. The route may be R rated but where he fell from was not in any way a R rated fall.

I have taken a bigger fall on a G rated route, my estimates would put it at maybe 20ish ft comparing his body to the length of the rope out and adding another 1/4 for being slightly past the piece of gear etc?

Just because it's R rated doesn't mean there is never pro in the whole pitch.....

Marcelo F · · Oakland, CA · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0
ViperScale wrote:

How is that an R rated? The part he fell on wasn't even that bad and no risk of ledge / ground fall. The route may be R rated but where he fell from was not in any way a R rated fall.

I have taken a bigger fall on a G rated route, my estimates would put it at maybe 20ish ft comparing his body to the length of the rope out and adding another 1/4 for being slightly past the piece of gear etc?

I don't know why it's rated R as I have never been on it, and I'm trying not to draw conclusions on a route based on a 5 second long video of someone falling off it. It's been rated 14a R when led on gear by a lot of strong climbers, though (and Jorg is a very strong climber). No idea if he is in the R section or not, or if the foot-behind-the-rope move (which he seemed to think was mandatory) makes it rated R.

Again, a climber got on a dangerous route and took a dangerous fall. He was wearing a helmet, his belayer provided a good catch, and he was fully aware that he was putting his foot behind the rope and risking an upside down fall. I think this thread has already exhausted what little there might have been to learn from here, but that's just my opinion.

Cheers!

slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 930
ViperScale wrote:

...I have taken a bigger fall on a G rated route...

well, no need to brag big fella.  must have been a helluva 5.7.....

DrRockso · · Red River Gorge, KY · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 181

Viperscale come back when you have something useful to contribute to the conversation.

amarius · · Nowhere, OK · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 0

China Doll


Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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