Gunks - Trust the Pitons?

Also the Try Again pin was replaced recently. Maybe two years ago?

Kevin Heckeler wrote:

I'm sure the old-timer thought that way for a long time, but physics is physics and without any significant stretching properties the sling doesn't buy you anything.  Slings aren't supposed to give (much).   Not enough it matters in this scenario.

Maybe the message was garbled along the way? If a piton is poorly driven and sticking out then hitching it close to the rock vs a carabiner at the end to reduce leverage it a good idea. Or if the eye indeed looks bad even if the piton is fully driven then hitching the shaft beats hitching the eye. But if I am going to use the eye of the piton I'd generally prefer a carabiner than the sling directly.

I don't want to over-speak for my extremely rudimentary knowledge on the subject, but you can evaluate them with a Carabiner or your nut tool, just like you would a hammer. But of course, you have to know what you're looking for.

The Feast of Fools pin is another candidate for "most appreciated." There used to be two of them. One of them was replaced and then that new pin fell out shortly afterwards! So even new pins are suspect....

trust them...NO,  clip them...YES

When I climbed there regularly, the only ones I skipped were the old ring pitons, mostly because 90% of them have a better pin very close, or bomber gear close by.  

wivanoff wrote:

Someone replaced the pins on Classic? That's (sort of, not really) a shame! Clipping and moving past those bent old things was a rite of passage for the 5.7 Gunks climber. 

The fixed pins at our local crag so outperformed bolts placed during the same period it was ridiculous, but the real message is ALL fixed gear - bolts and pins - need to be maintained over time. Both bolts and pins can look good when you come upon them and be complete shite in the rock and it's harder to determine the soundness of bolts than pins. Ideally both should be checked every 5-10 years. On checking them, pins can be deemed good, removed and reset, or replaced; bolts are generally just deemed good or replaced. Over decade timespans I generally have more faith in old pins than old bolts, but that can also vary by regional rock type, temp swings and icing of cracks.

I surveyed every pin (several hundred) at our crag a few years back and came away with the following: 

• Small pins of all types were less than ideal from a longevity perspective compared to medium and long pins, use a bolt instead
• Angles have minimal spine and leg surface area in contact with the rock and are more likely to need resetting than other types or just removed because we now have cams for such placements
• Knifeblades are more subject to corrosion than Bugaboos, always prefer the latter
• Medium and long Lost Arrows, Bugaboos and Euro soft spades were generally bomb with very few needing to be reset or replaced

Also, to some extent there is a bias from young folks coming up through gyms - if you'd come up on pins you'd likely find all bolts suspect.

SethG wrote:

Many of them can be backed up, and my policy usually is to do so. Like the one on MF, for instance. That pin is easily backed up. As is the low one on Birdland. 

Agree with this advice of course but those are two of the most bomber pins!

It seems like the thinner/knifeblade pins you really want to back up are in the tight cracks where you can't. Anguish, for example. That one on proctoscope. The on again off again pin on farewell to arms. The list goes on.

Seems like that Try Again pin is really solid (We whipped on it 9 times with a wet crux hold).  Most pins I am weary of buy the retribution, MF and Try Again pitons should hold after all the falls they have caught.

And keep in mind that when talking in a measure of decades, be it bolts or pins, that past performance is no guarantee of future results.

Alec Orenstein wrote:

When I climbed there regularly, the only ones I skipped were the old ring pitons, mostly because 90% of them have a better pin very close, or bomber gear close by.  

I've never even noticed that pin.

This thread has caused me to re-evaluate my regular practice of skipping pins unless I'm feeling a bit precarious (when anything is better than nothing).. my thinking had been 'why deal with the rope drag and loose a sling on something dicey'.. but now I figure I should just clip them and back them up when I can. And yes, I know they might fail etc. but the stories have bumped their chances of being some use in my mind.

nkane wrote:

Someone replaced the pins on Classic? That's (sort of, not really) a shame! Clipping and moving past those bent old things was a rite of passage for the 5.7 Gunks climber. 

I said "fairly recently". I think it was April 2013 and may have been only the second pin. The old pins sure were creaky

Yes I do!

Sometimes it's all you have    girth hitch is s.o.p.   We are all going to die ! Adds to the aura of the gunks !   

Be honest, you just posted that so people would know that you climbed an obscure route like Nose Drops. 

Is it worth doing? 

I love this thread, it's like gunks.com got rebooted. Can we all talk about our Gunks goals for the next year? Or guess the route?

Seth-

All I remember about the route is getting the pin.

SethG wrote:

I've never even noticed that pin.

It's more in line with the direct variation -- it's up and to the left of where you move right around the corner.  Take a look next time you're there (if it's even still there) and shudder to think of falling on it.

MojoMonkey wrote:

Maybe the message was garbled along the way? If a piton is poorly driven and sticking out then hitching it close to the rock vs a carabiner at the end to reduce leverage it a good idea. Or if the eye indeed looks bad even if the piton is fully driven then hitching the shaft beats hitching the eye. But if I am going to use the eye of the piton I'd generally prefer a carabiner than the sling directly.

I was definitely only thinking of clipping to the eye, but I suppose it would be better to hitch a piton as you describe if it wasn't sunk all the way in/flush.