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Second loop on BD ATC Guide?


Original Post
normajean · · Reading, PA · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 100

I would appreciate the explaination for the purpose of this loop.

Tylerpratt · · Litchfield, Connecticut · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 35

When belaying a second on autoblock  it can be difficult to release slack when the rope is weighted. Put a biner nose in there with a sling and pull on it to release slack to lower your second or give them slack etc.

Please make sure you know how to setup the autoblock properly before you attempt to put someone on it. It can be easy to forget and setup like a normal belay and then you second is not on autoblock and they can be dropped if you are careless. 

Michael Schneider · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 765

   - skip to 2:40 in the Black Diamond video,

But I like The Petzel Product & video better:

I'm not trying to make a point about Redundancey here. (If there is a duplication of videos?)

The Double dose of those videos ?Better than no videos ? When I tried to add the link the duplication happend

There's also this one:(The Volume/sound seems off?) so try this one as well:

Nathan Flaim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 0

Isn't there an explanation of the loop in the literature booklet that the device comes with?

Read:  If you don't know, I'm not going to tell you.  

Ryan Hamilton · · Orem · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 20

Please be careful. You can easily drop your second if you don't know what you're doing. Go read the booklet and watch some videos. 

Old lady H · · Boise, Idaho · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 290
normajean wrote:

I would appreciate the explaination for the purpose of this loop.

Normajean, I still have the paper instructions for mine (we have two or three). Pm me with your address, and I'll shoot it right out, if you would like a copy. A PDF is available online, but hard to use, and terrible to print out. 

Best, Helen

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 190

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ATC+Guide

If you don't know what it is for, why did you buy an ATC Guide?

NorCalNomad · · San Francisco · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 105

Instructions just like turn signals are damn hard to use. 

Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 310

Yes .... please know how to work one of those be-fore you drop someone.

I have been dropped two times on one of those fuc$#rs, once by a guide!!!



rozaosa · · Mordor · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 10

It's for dropping your second.. 

Turner · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 150
Ted Pinson wrote:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ATC+Guide

If you don't know what it is for, why did you buy an ATC Guide?

Don't be a dick.

Nick Drake · · Newcastle, WA · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 483
Turner wrote:

Don't be a dick.

There's a point where calling out laziness isn't being a dick, this is one of those times.

Craig Childre · · Lubbock, Texas · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 4,950

To be frank...  one asking this sort of question here... seems to deserve a little backlash.  Sort of situation where, if you have to ask, then it's logical to conclude you don't need to know.  My personal perspective... This would be the last source I would use for this sort of information.  1st, the instructions that came with it; 2nd, the manufacture (download a pdf of the original instructions); 3rd would be another manufacturer of similar design; 4th, local climbing shop; and 5th, any friendly person you meet out at the crag... and last place would be here on the internet.  I tend to favor the face to face encounters over online.  I learned this application from my trad mentor, so it's understandable the sport and bouldering crowd are left wondering.

Parker Wrozek · · Denver, CO · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 83

Where was it stated that the OP bought one? It is a picture from outdoor gearlab.com off their phone. 

The first 2 responses were correct and good. All the rest are pointless (including mine).

Old lady H · · Boise, Idaho · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 290
Guy Keesee wrote:

Yes .... please know how to work one of those be-fore you drop someone.

I have been dropped two times on one of those fuc$#rs, once by a guide!!!



Hey, I know you do your homework, normajean! :-)

"Belaying a second in ATC guide mode" should get you oodles of information, if you are just curious, or, someone has one and you want to know more.

If any multi at all is in the works for you, know this anyway, so you can make sure the other party knows what they're doing. If it's definitely going to happen, find a safe way/place to practice, and be prepared to be dropped.

That's what we did, the only time I've ever been dropped. A whopping three feet, I knew it might happen, it was safe.....And I hated it. Far worse than falling.

So, as said, if you inherited one of these, minus the paper, I'll happily send that off to you.

Best, Helen

normajean · · Reading, PA · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 100
  1. Thank you, Tylerpratt and Michael Snyder, for a helpful response and videos. Everyone else, no need to be helpful here if you don't want to be, so carry on! But MP would be a more pleasant place to visit if you simply did not respond. 
r m · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 0

The thing about climbing is it's full of unpleasantness. From body parts being amputated from freezing, to shattered ankles, to death.

Much (most?) of these incidents are preventable. I think that's why we are harsh on each other. It's normal in endeavours where failure equates with serious consequences to end up with less pleasant discourse.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet that most owners of ATC guides and the numerous similar devices wouldn't know how to use the guide mode (including both belaying and safely lowering). I can't think of any reason other than laziness on their parts.

Good job on engaging in a learning experience. It was lazy to ask, but you're going in the right direction :)

Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 871

No problem for asking on the internet  

I'd rather you ask here then go out and try it on your own without any information, and then drop somebody, which has happened too many times. Furthermore, the information you got here is far more detailed than the instruction manual's.  The instruction manual's only tell you how to do it. But, they don't tell you that it is not very easy or reliable and it is nuanced. The chance of dropping your partner is fairly high. It has happened many times.  This is because the difference between fully locked and fully opened is very subtle. It can definitely catch you offguard. And if you are using bodyweight to open the device, your reflex may not be proper to lock the device up quickly. Bam! Too late your partner just decked.

The manufacturers have been slowly trying to improve this flaw without admitting it openly.  The DMM pivot is probably the best device when it comes to lowering from an auto block mode.

But, one can be easily and safely lower with any auto block device using a simple technique that is not in their manuals. And by the way, that video by the guide kind of sucked.  Of course the friction hitch back up is only for safety in the event of failure. But, can you imagine trying to reliably lower someone from a friction hitch. Forget about it.

Super simple:  

Attach the brake strand to a Munter on your belay loop. Then, using the release loop that you asked about, attach a sling and redirect it above and back to your belay loop.  Now, with your hand on the brake strand of the Munter, slowly lean back to open the auto block. Control the descent with the Munter brake strand

Very few people become proficient at lowering from and Auto block since it is an action that is so rarely used. Just use the Munter.

Better yet, avoid the situation in the first place.  Don't drag your friends up routes that are way too hard for them in the first place.  Or, if you do, just belay in normal mode.  

Sean H · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Dec 2008 · Points: 120
Craig Childre wrote:

To be frank...  one asking this sort of question here... seems to deserve a little backlash.  Sort of situation where, if you have to ask, then it's logical to conclude you don't need to know. 

Says the tough guy from Texas that I bet leads all sorts of hard man shit. You could own an ATC guide/Reverso for years and never have reason to use that feature, even if you multi-pitch now and then. What the hell is wrong with asking the internet, then getting told, "This is what it's for, there's some trickiness to it, perhaps find a guide or someone familiar with it to show you."

Nate Doyle · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 10

Gred D mentioned the DMM Pivot, which you can see has a different "loop" that, well, it pivots when being used in guide mode:

Here is an article (with video) that talks about it how it works; as well as how it attempts to address the issue that exists with the BD device.

Goat Slayer · · Olympia, WA · Joined Feb 2017 · Points: 0

Oh my god... and all this time I've been using that to hold my cigarette.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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