Making/Using Quickdraws with Lockers for Sport Anchors


Original Post
Ken Graf · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2016 · Points: 0

Hi all, way overthinking this I'm sure, but here goes....

I am taking a very conservative friend to a sport crag with bolted anchors. I plan to lead and he will likely TR/clean. I am a fan of the two quickdraw method for bolted TR anchors, but in an effort to maximize the safety factor, I purchased two dog-bones and four D-shaped lockers for assembling a simple, efficient, yet bomber bolted TR anchor. 

Now my gears start turning....given the "natural" orientation of biners on draws, the lockers on the bolt side are going to have their gates "screwing up". Is there a concern that they could rub/vibrate unscrewed and, if so, how should I mitigate this? Would I want to turn the lockers on the bolts upside-down so they would be "screwing down" or would this method negatively affect the natural orientation that you usually see in a typical two quickdraw sport anchor. 

Told you, way overthinking....

Nick Sweeney · · Spokane, WA · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 615

I wouldn't worry about it. 

Brandon.Phillips · · Alabama · Joined May 2011 · Points: 0

It will be fine.

Pavel Burov · · Russia · Joined May 2013 · Points: 25

Edelrid Pure Slider or Grivel Sigma K8G, or Black Diamond VaporLock Magnetron.

Vaughn · · Colorado · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 25

If you're really concerned you could use some edelrid Strike Sliders, or BD Magnetron. However, that would be pretty silly since you are mitigating a non-issue.

Here is a relevant thread: https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/112390488/has-two-opposed-draws-on-an-anchor-ever-come-unclipped

Ken Graf · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2016 · Points: 0

Yes!

This is precisely the amount of relevant information plus requisite sass I was counting on.

Thanks folks.

Tim Lutz · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 0

ur gunna die!

... one day, but not from not having lockers on a sport lowering anchor!

John Wilder · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2004 · Points: 1,500

Petzl is releasing small auto-locking D's for this sort of thing next month.

If you can find them, Camp discontinued the Orbit auto-locker last fall, and Mammut used to make one too (i forget the name).

The Strike Sliders would be a bit sneaky to use as an unattended locker if you're actually concerned about safety. I love them for belay lockers/attended lockers, but i'd hesitate to use them as a necessary unattended one as they open really easily. That said, i dont think lockers are required at all for this sort of thing, so if you want to create peace of mind while not actually worrying overmuch about it yourself, maybe this is the best option.

Tylerpratt · · Litchfield, Connecticut · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 0

I had a friend put lockers on the chains once, lock them, not tell me, and then we pulled the rope and I led. It was a fun whip from the chains for sure...Just dont do that if you are re leading it.

Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 120

After reading the other thread about opposing QDs becoming unclipped in TR setup, I'm wondering if in some cases the issue is having stiff dog-bones. I've noticed that even if the anchors are in line horizontally, when the climber is to one side of the anchor, only the far draw is taking the weight of the rope. The other is being pushed towards the anchor, and compressed between it and the rope. At more extreme angles, the near draw can get pushed away from the far one and along the rope. Perhaps this slack and then compression of the near draw is what creates the opportunity for it to unclip.

The locker setup sounds good.

Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 105

The BD Magnetron ..... is a really good locker for your ATC etc......  but if you use it for any other purpose, I find that its really hard to un-clip one handed.


Personally my friends and I use two 24inch alpine draws, one with lockers at both ends the other with some beefy biners, no skinny wire gates... This way if one wishes to lead... when they get to the anchors you can clip the non-locking one and then mess with the locker, or if people are TRing that are clipped through one locker....  and when its time to clean up.... you don't need a PAS or some other tether, one is already at the anchors... you clip them to your harnes, do what you must at the anchor and head on down. 

I always wonder why some people carry some tied up equalizing deal to accomplish such a simple task.

Kyle Tarry · · Portland, OR · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 107
Ken Graf wrote:

I am a fan of the two quickdraw method for bolted TR anchors, but in an effort to maximize the safety factor, I purchased two dog-bones and four D-shaped lockers for assembling a simple, efficient, yet bomber bolted TR anchor. 

Why not just use 4 lockers and a sling/cord and tie a masterpoint?  If you're going for a bomber toprope anchor, that's pretty much the standard, and it uses all stuff you already have, no building special draws for this purpose required.

Nick Sweeney · · Spokane, WA · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 615

Unfollowing before this becomes any longer than it needs to be.  

Ryan Hamilton · · Orem · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 0

If the anchor bolts have chains, do you new buddy a favor and set up the anchor so it's easy to clean. He just has to clip a PAS or quickdraw to the anchor to unweigh the rope then unclip the draws from the anchor, no knot tying or anything. 

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 45

Just to be clear: you're adding absolutely nothing to the safety factor by using lockers in this scenario.  If  it makes him feel better, great...but he needs to learn how to accurately assess safety systems.

snowdenroad · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2007 · Points: 0

Hey Ted, I assume scenario means lockers on anchor draw, so if the rock at the anchor is smooth as cardboard, and equal height bolts, you are correct.  However, in the chossier areas of the PNW that is not the case and a weighted rope can and does cause an anchor carabiner's gate to push open.  I also like having dedicated anchor draws to reduce wear on the others, (and give the rope a fatter diameter for TRing).  BTW, if you had written 'rarely' instead of absolutely, I would not have responded...

Serge Smirnov · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 150

I have witnessed an upside-down locker unscrew itself from rope vibration.  I was amazed how quickly it happened - it went from fully screwed to fully unscrewed in seconds.  Tightening it a little seemed to prevent that.

Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 100
snowdenroad wrote:

Hey Ted, I assume scenario means lockers on anchor draw, so if the rock at the anchor is smooth as cardboard, and equal height bolts, you are correct.  However, in the chossier areas of the PNW that is not the case and a weighted rope can and does cause an anchor carabiner's gate to push open.  I also like having dedicated anchor draws to reduce wear on the others, (and give the rope a fatter diameter for TRing).  BTW, if you had written 'rarely' instead of absolutely, I would not have responded...

Well, you do this way more than me in terms of sport vs trad, but I've never seen or heard of any problem with using non-locking draws in opposition for lowering / TRing.

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 45

Great that we get to revive a 3 month old thread, but: that's precisely why you want them opposite and opposed.  The chances of both draws doing this in that orientation are probably less than getting struck by lighting.  Reducing wear, making you feel good, getting to carry extra weight and gear up with you, etc are all perfectly valid reasons for using different anchoring systems on a 2 bolt single pitch sport anchor, but they don't make you substantially safer, nor by implication is it "unsafe" to use two QDs.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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