possible via ferrata telluride set up?


Original Post
Charles Baker · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined May 2016 · Points: 0

This may not be an original idea at all, but I would like some feed back on it from you guys. Many people say via ferrata at telly can only be climbed using a specific lanyard, some say a basic set up with a screamer, and some go with even less. I'm not asking about that, i'm asking if this method I came up with would be a good idea, looking for totally constructive feedback, as i'm just looking for better or alternate ways for people to do the via.

please excuse my crappy art.

key:

-main line represents a dynamic rope, maybe 8mm, tied so that it has 2 strands between the biner and the harness, with two figure 8's (one to the biner, and one around the harness loops (or a variation, better version, etc)

-daisy chain is just a way to keep the biner with the connecting rope close to the climber as they traverse, yes it would probably break, i'm expecting it to.

-black line is the metal cable on the via

-green line is the dynamic rope, maybe 8mm, tied through each harness' loops for a counter-weight belay

initial set up:

step 1

and this would be a fall:
step2

the idea would be that the fall (if the main line broke) would be similar to a sport climb, the one catching the fall would be yanked up about 2 or 3 feet up to the biner. Even though that isn't much, there would be more dynamic rope out, and the catch would put less force on all parts of the system.

What are you thoughts? any similar/better ideas? does this idea suck? haha.

sandrock · · Colorado Springs, CO · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 40

this seems to give a huge potential for the leader/counterweight to get seriously injured

Charles Baker · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined May 2016 · Points: 0

agreed, but i'm more of considering it as the backup measure? the rope could also be a shorter distance between the leader, and second.

aikibujin · · Castle Rock, CO · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 200

What if I have no friends and want to go solo?!

But seriously, I'm not understanding your setup very well. Are you expecting the breaking of the daisy to act as the energy absorbing component in your system, in place of a screamer-like energy absorber in a regular via ferrata lanyard?

Charles Baker · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined May 2016 · Points: 0

no, the daisy chain just drags the biner close to you that the connecting rope runs through. so if the mainline&daisychain break, the fall is taken on the dynamic rope, weighted by the other person.

eli poss · · Durango, Co · Joined May 2014 · Points: 136

Way too complex. Having done the via ferrata in Telluride, I can assure you it wouldn't work well for how it is set up. On this course, you would have to try to fall off. Use whatever you normally use to tether into things and incorporate a screamer if you really feel like you need it. But honestly, it's mostly just hiking next to the edge of a cliff.

You also wouldn't want the person to be able to fall that far in some places or they would hit something on the way down.

Charles Baker · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined May 2016 · Points: 0

alright, thanks for the replies, just gonna take this down now. or not, guess i can't

aikibujin · · Castle Rock, CO · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 200
Charles Baker wrote:no, the daisy chain just drags the biner close to you that the connecting rope runs through. so if the mainline&daisychain break, the fall is taken on the dynamic rope, weighted by the other person.
So you're basically simul-climbing? Not trying to give you a hard time, just trying to understand your proposed setup.
Charles Baker · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined May 2016 · Points: 0

yes, the whole time it would be like 2 weights(people) traversing with a pulley in between them. but the connecting line going through a separate biner for each person, so that the fall would have less of a swing, and for easy access them.

i'm not saying it wouldn't hurt, same as a counterweight belay while hiking a high exposure peak/cliff. I'm trying to gauge if it is worth the effort, based on NOT having a premade lanyard.

eli poss · · Durango, Co · Joined May 2014 · Points: 136

No it's not worth the effort. You don't need some fancy pre-made via ferrata lanyard. All you need is 2 slings and a couple of biners. Nylon would probably be better than dyneema.

Charles Baker · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined May 2016 · Points: 0

thanks for the input, although most would disagree with the couple of slings method, because IF a fall is taken, it can be ff 2 or higher depending on the cables curve and length.

the way I see it though, as long as there isn't much slack between you and the cable, there won't be much of a fall either.

aikibujin · · Castle Rock, CO · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 200

After looking at your drawings carefully, I think I understand your setup now.

Basically, you have one person tie-in to one end of a short 8mm rope with a regular rethreaded figure-8, but leave about an arm length of tail, this tail is fixed to a locking carabiner and act as one leg of your tether. The rest of the rope is clipped through another locking biner (but not fixed) so the rope is free to run through the biner. The daisy is clipped to this biner basically to act as the second leg of your tether (and also so the second biner doesn't run away from you). Am I understanding it correctly?

Charles Baker · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined May 2016 · Points: 0

you've got everything except the tail tether part, though that is in-significant. I figured it would be a separate, just direct line from you to the cable. But using the tail would work too.

eli poss · · Durango, Co · Joined May 2014 · Points: 136
Charles Baker wrote:thanks for the input, although most would disagree with the couple of slings method, because IF a fall is taken, it can be ff 2 or higher depending on the cables curve and length. the way I see it though, as long as there isn't much slack between you and the cable, there won't be much of a fall either.
On your average european via ferrata yes you can take a fall greater than factor 2. But on the one is Telluride you'd be hard pressed to take even a factor 2.
I don't remember any section where the fall factor would be any more than 1.5 and most of the time it's well below 1.
Charles Baker · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined May 2016 · Points: 0

good to know, so sounds to me like a direct attachment is alright

aikibujin · · Castle Rock, CO · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 200
Charles Baker wrote:you've got everything except the tail tether part, though that is in-significant. I figured it would be a separate, just direct line from you to the cable. But using the tail would work too.
I do think it's cool that you're thinking about this. Since you're asking the question, you obviously know the possibility of much higher than FF2 falls on a via ferrata. So let's put aside the likelihood of a high FF fall on the Krogerata (not very likely), and think in more general terms.

The biggest problem with your setup is that you're still falling first on that 8mm tether and the daisy, with no energy absorbing system in between. It is no different than building your tether out of a short section of 8mm rope and a daisy. If you're using a sewn daisy, a short fall can rip open the individual loops, but to break the daisy end-to-end will require a force that's too great for the human body to handle. Same with a 8mm rope, or a PAS-style tether. So with enough force to break both your main line and the daisy, you're probably already dead or close to it. Having a 8mm rope connecting you to your buddy only allows for an easier body recovery.

Now in theory, if you replace both tethers with two thin bungee cords that will break easily in a fall, and have the 8mm rope run through both carabiners, then your system will work a little more like you envisioned. You're essentially simul-climbing then, and all rules for simul-climbing applies (don't fall!). But it's still not a great energy absorbing system though, so in a vertical via ferrata when the fall factor can be really high, it's hard to say if it's enough to prevent serious injury. You also run the risk of colliding climbers since they're pulled toward each other in a fall.

You can use a short rope to protect difficult via ferrata in combination with a proper tether, Petzl has some tech tips on it. The Krogerata is so easy that any climber can probably walk it without a tether, but I was planning on taking my non-climbing wife, so I thought about short roping her just in case.
https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Belaying-with-a-rope-as-a-complement-to-energy-absorbing-lanyards?ProductName=SCORPIO-VERTIGO#.WNsnq_krKM8
Charles Baker · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined May 2016 · Points: 0

thanks aikibujin, that link is basically, a better version of what I had in mind. thanks for the helpful post! I was just thinking, there has to be some better alternatives, glad the conversation went somewhere.

Cody Goldberg · · Lakewood, Colorado · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 5

I used two 16-foot lengths of 8mm dynamic cord with lockers and a couple fishermen's knots. Cost: $19

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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