Anyone know what knot this is?


Original Post
delly84 · · Golden, Co · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 154

Anyone know what knot Jacopo Larcher is using to tie in? BD just posted this video on their FB feed a few hours ago.

view of Jacopo Larcher's tie in knot

aikibujin · · Castle Rock, CO · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 290

Rethreaded bowline. Telltale sign is the double-loop of rope through the tie-in points.

Edit to add: found a picture on MP.

Victor K · · Denver, CO · Joined Jul 2003 · Points: 165

Agree. Sort of a short tail though.

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 2,740
Victor K wrote:Agree. Sort of a short tail though.
Not an issue; the entire second half of the knot is effectively a "tail" (compare it to a regular bowline, which is absolutely sufficient on its own).
Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
Gunkiemike wrote: Not an issue; the entire second half of the knot is effectively a "tail" (compare it to a regular bowline, which is absolutely sufficient on its own).
Indeed, I´ve never even seen it tied with a stopper knot and it´s the usual tie-in around here.
Sam Stephens · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 1,015

Yep. My go to. We call it the paranoid bowline

Joe Garibay · · Ventura, Ca · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 90

Anyone have step by step pics?

Marty C · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 70

Joe - no pictures, but hopefully this description will help.

- tie your regular bowline with a very long tail

- after bowline is done and long tail finishes inside the loop, re-trace the original/first bowline with the tail

- after re-tracing bowline, tail should finish by coming up "out of the hole"

- finish with a stopper knot or as others have commented, don't tie a stopper knot

ViperScale · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 230
Joe Garibay wrote:Anyone have step by step pics?
http://www.animatedknots.com/bowline/index.php?Categ=climbing#ScrollPoint

Just retrace at the end should be simple enough to follow. So if you follow these pictures to get a normal bowline than just follow where it ends and follow back around until you get to the start than tie a stopper knot.
Joe Garibay · · Ventura, Ca · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 90

Thanks. I'm familiar with a single bowline. Wasn't sure if the double was just retraced or almost looked like a step through, i.e. a girth on a bite. (Alpine girth)? I don't know, throwing darts.

aikibujin · · Castle Rock, CO · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 290

You can tie it as a "step-through" (called bowline on a bight ), but that's totally unnecessary as a tie-in knot.

Here's how to tie it by re-threading, except I use a regular (single loop) bowline, not a double-loop bowline.

David Coley · · UK · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 70
Joe Garibay wrote:Anyone have step by step pics?
The knots appendix at mutipitchclimbing.com
20 kN · · Hawaii · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,352
Joe Garibay wrote:Anyone have step by step pics?
Yes, I've explained how to tie it with photos. It's somewhere on this forum under a topic relating to the bowline. I dont tie the double fishermans at the top, instead I take the tail and run it back through using the Yosemite finish which keeps the tail out of the way. Tied that way, it's basically the most secure version of the bowline used in climbing and it's in essentially three knots tied in series making it pretty bomber.
aikibujin · · Castle Rock, CO · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 290
David Coley wrote: The knots appendix at mutipitchclimbing.com
David Coley's website is a great resource, except he apparently can't spell "multipitch". :)

Here's the direct link to his knot page, the rethreaded bowline (retraced bowline) is about 1/3 way down.

http://people.bath.ac.uk/dac33/high/16Knots2.htm
Brian Abram · · Celo, NC · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 483

This has been my standard knot for everything except the gym where it's not allowed. It's about as quick to tie as a figure-8 and super easy to untie after falls.

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 525

The DAV did tests a few years ago and rated the rethreaded bowline equal to the rethreaded 8 in security and strength but better than the 8 in terms of getting the knot untied after loading.

eli poss · · Durango, Co · Joined May 2014 · Points: 456
rgold wrote:The DAV did tests a few years ago and rated the rethreaded bowline equal to the rethreaded 8 in security and strength but better than the 8 in terms of getting the knot untied after loading.
Does that mean that, like the fig 8, the rethreaded bowline doesn't need a double overhand backup knot? It just feels wrong to me to use an iteration of the bowline without a backup knot.
Chris Walden · · Soldotna, Alaska · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 640

We commonly use the double loop bowline on bomber two-point anchors like two bolts seen here. Something to keep in mind when using as a tie-in is the integral part of your system checks - ABC (Anchor, Belay, Climber) and knot inspection. My 8 & 9 year old can look at your figure eight and see if it's right or wrong. If you were tied in with a double-loop bowline the vast percentage would be giving you the WTH is that look -- this is not to be understated accidents occur from incorrect tie-ins.

Double Loop Bowline on a two piece anchor

Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
eli poss wrote: Does that mean that, like the fig 8, the rethreaded bowline doesn't need a double overhand backup knot? It just feels wrong to me to use an iteration of the bowline without a backup knot.
No it doesn´t. We don´t teach it that way in Germany and the backup knot is completely superflous as the "spare" end of the rope is trapped all the way through the knot.It´s the standard tie-in knot for sport climbers at least in the part of Germany I live in. Having two loops spreads the wear on the tie-in points aND the re-threaded bowline is immune to ring loading.
Where it´s not a good knot is with two ropes where it all starts getting a bit bulky in the harness so for trad I change to a re-threaded 8 (without a stopper naturally!).
rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 525
eli poss wrote: Does that mean that, like the fig 8, the rethreaded bowline doesn't need a double overhand backup knot? It just feels wrong to me to use an iteration of the bowline without a backup knot.
I don't know whether the DAV commented on backup knots for these knots, but a backup knot certainly never hurts anything. If not backed up and the end went entirely through the knot you'd still have a single bowline with a very long tail, so it is hard to think of a backup knot as absolutely essential.

However, if you use this knot to anchor a fixed line to two anchors, one loop to each anchor, then you must use a backup knot, because one of those loops is a single bowline to one of the anchor points. I'd use something else for this purpose anyway.

The rethreaded bowline (let's not call it a double bowline, that's something else) is pretty common in Europe, so it seems at least some climbers are capable of checking it.

Personally, I'd use the rethreaded bowline as my regular knot but with half ropes, that's four strands through the tie-in points---gettin' a little crowded.
Daryl Allan · · Sierra Vista, AZ · Joined Sep 2006 · Points: 970

Deja Vu
https://www.mountainproject.com/v/help-identifying-a-knot/106135336

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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