Women's climbing festival

The event seems a bit ironic from my outside perspective so perhaps some of you will explain. The purpose of the women's climbing festival is to celebrate women in climbing and to inspire each other to new heights, great. This is built on the basis that climbing with men does NOT provide that experience. So to promote inclusion and combat exclusion, there is an EXCLUSIVE women's only event? Seems counterproductive to the inclusion part.

A better way would be to have a women's HOSTED event that anyone can attend right? Show the world how inclusion works? Instead of creating more exclusion and BUILDING barriers and ACKNOWLEDGING differences…?

You have to make choice between two options: 1. state that inherent differences between men and women exist and that exclusion is necessary, or 2. create and promote ALL inclusive events based on acceptance of everyone. It seems like this event is fighting fire with fire.

What are you talking about? Link the event

grog m aka Greg McKee wrote:The event seems a bit ironic from my outside perspective so perhaps some of you will explain. The purpose of the women's climbing festival is to celebrate women in climbing and to inspire each other to new heights, great. This is built on the basis that climbing with men does NOT provide that experience. So to promote inclusion and combat exclusion, there is an EXCLUSIVE women's only event? Seems counterproductive to the inclusion part. A better way would be to have a women's HOSTED event that anyone can attend right? Show the world how inclusion works? Instead of creating more exclusion and BUILDING barriers and ACKNOWLEDGING differences…? You have to make choice between two options: 1. state that inherent differences between men and women exist and that exclusion is necessary, or 2. create and promote ALL inclusive events based on acceptance of everyone. It seems like this event is fighting fire with fire.

I knew I recognized you.
So gore-ey how could I forget? If it is an Irish thing , or a St Patrick's day tipsy troll ?

Whateveh?

Climbing is about freedom, you Do Not Have to choose!
You're way off the mark, the way that women interact among themselves
Is very different than when even one man is involved.
inclusivity has its times and places.
The girls get together to avoid certain types of men . . . .

'Nough said!

Women climb with women because men are shitty partners. It's not about inclusivity, it's about ladies kicking ass and sending hard.

Max Forbes wrote:Women climb with women because men are shitty partners. It's not about inclusivity, it's about ladies kicking ass and sending hard.

\

Wow. This is a very sexist thing to say.

"inclusivity has its times and places."

Only when its convenient? No, it doesn't, its all or nothing.

"men are shitty partners."

Speak for yourself.

Maybe a woman should reply to this thread. I haven't seen one yet.

Like many modern feminist type things, these events implement a double standard, however hypocritical it may be. But hey, if it makes them happy then so be it. Isn't that what climbing is about, being happy? If some women think that men make shitty partners then they are entitled to their own opinion. Many women who have found good male partners will continue to climb their male counterparts.

I too would like to hear what a woman says about this. It would be good to hear both sides of the story.

P.S. Didn't Lynn Hill, possibly the most inspiring female climber, climb in a group where she was the only female? Were there any other female Stoned Masters?

Apparently none of you boys have ever gone to a bachelor party? Attended a basketball game? Watched pro golf? Were in college athletics? Men and women can, and do, play together across a huge range of sports. But, as soon as it gets more serious, than yes, gender might come into play.

Most of you might have noticed women are generally built differently than men. If some would wish to attend an event that specifically addresses issues and challenges women may, MAY, encounter, what's it to you? Find inspiration? Find mentors? Find partners? Find advice about climbing through pregnancy? C'mon, guys.

Those other threads were tiresome enough. Don't start this yet again.

For the bazillionth time, climbing is about the most egalitarian group I have ever been associated with. Ever. In 60 years. By a long shot.

And. None of YOUR business to tell me who to associate with or why I am evil to do so. Park that nonsense where the sun never shines.

But, yeah, Grog, they should be getting past the dorky "inclusivity" if that's what they're billing it as. Celebration? Sure! For women, by women, about women? I got zero problem with that.

Last. I like you guys, and would happily climb with you, but you jerks insist on living too stinkin far away.

Best, OLH

feminism is not about equal rights. its about extra rights.....

Yeah, I'm not interested in going down this road again right now. But for those of you saying so, if you genuinely want to hear women's perspective on this or any subject, reflect on your tone - are you inviting open dialog, or is your tone accusing and demanding women "explain themselves"? This is just one woman's perception but this thread seems more of the latter.

Dig up some of those other threads - lots of posters, men and women, had some great and insightful things to say.

Yes, feminism is about all people having equal rights. Women have the right to have a women's only climbing festival, just as men have an equal right to have a men's only climbing festival, if they want to. Why don't we see many (any?) men's only climbing events? My guess is that, as members of a group that is not routinely marginalized in everyday life, men don't feel a need to take a break from it for a day or few. But if you'd like to have one, for any reason, start a men's climbing festival! I fully support you in doing so.

If someone wants to host a women's only climbing event why does anyone care? If you want to go through the trouble of putting together a men's only climbing event to deepen the brotherhood, that's fine by me. There is a flyer up at my gym right now for a vegan-only climbing group. I have previously seen flyers for a climbing group for people in 12 step programs. It never occurred to me that self-selecting groups that have no impact on me should bother me.

I'm a simplistic gal. I'll climb with anyone safe and not super-annoying (moderately annoying welcome), but that doesn't mean someone that has multiple strong interests should be prevented from organizing with other like-minded individuals. I like climbing. Some people like climbing + other. Great. It has no impact on me.

Why, for the love of god, are we still talking about this???????????????

H.O.L.Y H.E.L.L
This again.
I'll echo the above sentiment. This is such tired and dumb topic. I've also seen Veteran climbing trips (I'm not one but I climb with several people who are). Doesn't offend me when I'm not invited. People like to congregate with those who've had similar life experiences. I also don't get offended when my wife wants a girls' night out. Women want to celebrate womanhood and get support from other women. It DOESN'T de facto mean they don't want to celebrate, climb with, or feel support from men as well.

Also, a lot of them feel marginalized, under represented etc, and you telling them they aren't isn't going to change how they feel. Maybe some women are overreacting? Well so what. Maybe some aren't too. The crags aren't getting segregated so there are women only climbing hours, the gyms are open to everyone, you can buy anything you want (gender specific or not), etc. This also has virtually no impact on your life at all. The only impact I can imagine is that you occasionally read an article that gets you all miffed, see a flyer or you over hear a conversation from some women saying how they had a good time at the women's climbing festival and that pisses you off/makes you feel left out.

If you really feel so marginalized by the fact that a women's climbing festival exists where a few hundred women climb together once a year then you can:

a) apply to go and see if they let you (if they say no you could even try to take it to court on the grounds of sexism because of the injustice. After all that's what women did to get into college and stuff like that)
b) just climb at bishop when all the ladies are there (you've snuck in you sneaky bastard),
c) start a men's climbing festival,
d) be cool, let it go and get over it

I am looking for other guys who want to dress up like women and attend this event. Any takers? I just will feel like a woman that week and they can't exclude me.

Hey, Greg, how's the hand?

Best, Helen

Lol. Omfg not this again...give it a rest!

Phil Sakievich wrote: b) just climb at bishop when all the ladies are there (you've snuck in you sneaky bastard),

Do this, of course with no shirt on while vigorously spraying beta at them all day.

You have a male dominated sport, and the women want to get together and have an event without guys. How, again, is this an issue?

Old lady H wrote:If some would wish to attend an event that specifically addresses issues and challenges women may, MAY, encounter, what's it to you? Find inspiration? Find mentors? Find partners? Find advice about climbing through pregnancy?

Unless it is a competition, if you want to go hang out with the ladies at their event, I am willing to bet no one is going to kick you out. But you will probably get ignored.

I wish my wife and daughter would get involved with women-only groups that empowered them to get involved in the same outdoor sports that I enjoy. I would like them to see that be involved in these sports and still meet the ideals of feminine beauty that society instilled in them long before I met them. Yes, they can crush routes without developing arms and shoulders that they associate with male athletes. Yes, they can figure out techniques to send hard routes that play to their natural physical abilities, which are different than a guy's. And yes, they can discuss gear that is more suited to a woman's anatomy and how to deal with certain issues that they may encounter out in the wild, things that guys don't seem to have any problem with.

It is not some safe space, it is a gathering of kindred spirits. And while that ladies are all gathered together, go hit any one of the other crags with your bros. Like you do most every other climbing trip.

For the love of god, can we men not just let the ladies do their thing without questioning or criticizing it? Organize your own festival and include whoever you want to.

Matt Himmelstein wrote:You have a male dominated sport, and the women want to get together and have an event without guys. How, again, is this an issue? Unless it is a competition, if you want to go hang out with the ladies at their event, I am willing to bet no one is going to kick you out. But you will probably get ignored. I wish my wife and daughter would get involved with women-only groups that empowered them to get involved in the same outdoor sports that I enjoy. I would like them to see that be involved in these sports and still meet the ideals of feminine beauty that society instilled in them long before I met them. Yes, they can crush routes without developing arms and shoulders that they associate with male athletes. Yes, they can figure out techniques to send hard routes that play to their natural physical abilities, which are different than a guy's. And yes, they can discuss gear that is more suited to a woman's anatomy and how to deal with certain issues that they may encounter out in the wild, things that guys don't seem to have any problem with. It is not some safe space, it is a gathering of kindred spirits. And while that ladies are all gathered together, go hit any one of the other crags with your bros. Like you do most every other climbing trip.

Nice post, sir.

One of the reasons I will try to keep going as long as I can, is because my face is not at all the stereotypical climber. I am at a university gym, and, it is really heartwarming to see a scared, young, non athletic, overweight kid, give our "extreme" sport a try, because if an ancient old wreck can, maybe, just maybe....

Then, you see THAT grin. I absolutely love being there, when it happens.

Best, H.

Grog, check your ego and drop the B.S. Women deal with our shit on a daily basis both directly and indirectly. There is nothing sexist about finding more climbing partners of the same sex with a similar fisique. It's seriously not that complicated.

grog m aka Greg McKee wrote:The purpose of the women's climbing festival is to celebrate women in climbing and to inspire each other to new heights

Cool, what's your problem?

grog m aka Greg McKee wrote:So to promote inclusion and combat exclusion, there is an EXCLUSIVE women's only event?

That's not what you said this festival was about just a couple sentences ago...

grog m aka Greg McKee wrote:This is built on the basis that climbing with men does NOT provide that experience.

This post is the perfect example of why climbing with us men-folk very well might not provide that experience...

Bullshit like this is exactly why people who aren't white bro-dudes might want a climbing event without white bro-dudes.