Another way to 2:1 haul

Hi,
the 2:1 systems I've seen (or used) for big wall hauling have used a separate piece of cord.

Has anyone tried just using the tail of the (static) haul line as a replacement for this cord?

I assume part of the logic of using a separate cord is that its thinner diameter will improve the efficiency of the pulleys. But I note that many people are using 7mm cord, so an 8/8.5mm haul line is not much thicker.

Another is that you would have to thread the two pulleys each pitch, but I'm not sure this would take much more time than sorting the cord out.

On a long pitch I guess you might have little haul line left, but as the haul line normally takes a shorter path than the lead line, I doubt this is a common issue.

Maybe the line would stretch more than 5.5mm spectra, but maybe not, and I'm guessing it would be less than normal 6 or 7mm cord.

One reason I'm asking this is that many seem to be put off the 2:1 way as it looks more complex. I'm guessing the cord is part of the reason for this, as those same people seem to understand a 3:1.

It seems to me that using the tail means that it would be easy to switch from 1:1 to 2:1 to 3:1 (yuk) both on the wall, and in the head of the beginner.

So, has anyone done this?
If not, and you have used a 2:1 a reasonable amount, live somewhere near rock, it isn't raining (pissing in the UK at the moment), and you have a free hour for the good of humanity, please do a side-by-side test and report back. It would be very kind of you. Thanks!

PPP asked me to post a reply up from him (sent to me by email):

Hey David,

Don't use 5mm unless you want a heart attack! I use the 7mm, but replace it regularly. The amount of stretch is not enough to compensate for its tremendous convenience and ease of use. I get a long hunk about 15' long, so I can a) cut off the worn four feet or so b) switch ends before I cut c) have a hunk long enough to cross knots. You lower the zed out to full length, and then put both your jugs on the zed cord to pull up slack in the haul line, and pass the knot. Be careful! Think of the consequences should the zed cord break at this moment! So tie off the haul line! Note the slack in the system and that your haul line is static!!

The beauty of the 2:1 is that it is a self-contained system. You can put it in a little bag, or wrap the cord up on itself and tie it off. Then, you just pull it out. In theory you could use the end of the haul line, but what would be the benefit? Saving a few ounces of 7mm cord?

The drawbacks are numerous:

1. Complete pain in the ass to set up each time because you want the end of the haul line to either be going into the haul line bag, or else hanging free in space to act as counterweight for auto-feeding while you haul

2. Complete pain in the ass to set up each time. It takes seconds to set up the 2:1 once it is prerigged.

Probably any other number of answers.

Also, can you please put this in the 2:1 thread. Tell everyone that I had a suggestion from a buddy in Quebec - frig, what's his name, shit. Um ..... geez, Steve Traversari. Not sure what his user name is, but I believe he's on Mtn Project, so mention it is his idea. He suggested taking a double or triple length skinny dyneema sling, and using that as the zed cord. Someone needs to try it! Post it up on the 2:1 thread and see how it works on the real wall. I might try, but it would be awesome if someone cut THEIR sling first and tried it FOR me!

So it looks like we have a competition (I'm kind of hoping Mark will volunteer his garage, as he seems to have some weights!).

1. 5mm spectra
2. 7mm cord
3. end of haul line

anyone feel any difference?

Thanks and if it ever stops raining I will try it too.

I have no idea why you would ever rig the 2:1 with the haul line. I don't see any advantages. You are wasting time and saving very few ounces. Having the concept in your bag of tricks is a good idea though.

It is very easy to switch to 1:1 with my 2:1 kit. It's so easy and obvious that I'm not even going to waste any time explaining how to do it. You should be ashamed of yourself if you can't figure it out after looking at the system for a minute or two.

Without me know it, when Max and I climbed the South Seas, Max timed me from getting to the anchor to hauling. 5 minutes. Tie three knots, "off belay, jumar when ready", clip the haul kit to a bolt, thread the haul line, hauling. (We never give hauling commands, it's my feeling that you've been down there at the anchor for X hours, so you sure as hell better have been watching the ropes and making sure things stay straight are are ready to go. (rope bags, baby, rope bags))

Maybe the Sectra is bad but I get some 5 mil from Blue Water (?) sold in a package at REI that has never failed me.

Yann Camus is the guy in Canada who suggested using a Dyneema sling.
The idea is that it takes energy and force to bend a rope over a pulley. Imagine bending a 2" diameter rope over a 2" sheave pulley. It's going to be tough. Now imagine bending a 5 mil cord over the same pulley. Easy. The difference between bending an 8.5 mil cord over a 2" sheave pulley and bending a Dyneema sling over the same pulley is too smal to notice. In this regard, cord size over 1,5 and 2" sheave pulleys (the size pulleys you should be using on in your hauling kit) is a non issue.
I used a Dyneema sling to haul once. It worked fine but right at the very end of the route the sling went south really fast. I wouldn't suggest using it.

I don't own a garage anymore. I live in a van!

Hi Mark,
Van life. You can't beat it.

Thanks for the reply, and the earlier email.

The reason for posing the question was only as a way of encouraging people to consider the 2:1 way. For reasons I don't understand when I'm teaching this stuff (more often for self rescue than big walling) people find the 2:1 too complex and run away. This seems strange as they are all happy with a 3:1 - which is not more complex.

So I was trying to make the 2:1 look more like a 3:1. But this would be a bad idea if using the rope meant the system was not better than a 1:1.

I have no experience with rescue but I'd figure a big, big bag of tricks would be the ticket.