Redpoint with Prehung Draws


Original Post
Daniel Melnyk · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 0

If I'm sport climbing at a crag and the first time I climb a route I set the draws and don't climb it clean, then climb it a second time on lead clean, does it count as a repoint if the draws are still up?

Dan Cooksey · · Seattle, WA · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 365

Yes. The pros do it all the time.

Max Tepfer · · Bend, OR · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 1,595

Yes. But it's worth noting the inherently flawed concept of 'it counting.'

LL2 · · Santa Fe, NM · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 0

I thought this got settled in the 90s?

Jon W · · Longmont Colorado · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 95
LL2 wrote:I thought this got settled in the 90s?
It was.

Like those that refuse modern medicine for religious reasons, some just won't move into the present. I ignore them.

I predict at least 10 pages for this thread.
FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 275

Daniel,

What "counts" is that you have fun and stay safe. Set your own standards and don't worry what other people think.

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 190

I'd love to see somebody hang draws ground up on something at the Madness Cave or Motherode in RRG, lol. Frank said it best, but yes, it is accepted to "count" a sport redpoint on pre-hung draws.

Moof · · Portland, OR · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 25

Call it what you want. I call it a pink point, but plenty of folks get their panties in a bunch when you say such truths. Watch how defensive folks get to this post to see what I mean. We are one step away from calling a TR a red point...

John Hegyes · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2002 · Points: 4,737

On vertical routes, it is easier to lead a climb if the quick draws have already been placed, no doubt about it. Less energy needs to be used because there are fewer movements required. Since the draw hangs lower down on the rock compared to an empty hanger, it is marginally safer with preplaced draws because you don’t need to be as high above your previous protection to make the next clip.

For me personally, leading a route with preplaced draws doesn’t quite compare with leading a route placing the draws myself. Would both styles be called redpoint? I think it’s reasonable to debate.

Mark E Dixon · · Sprezzatura, Someday · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 549

I'm pretty sure pinkpoint refers to trad climbs with pre-placed pro.
This includes fixed nuts, cams, pins, etc.

Sorry guys, you've been pinkpointing all these years without knowing it.

caesar.salad · · earth · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 85

So much butthurt already in this thread.

What if they are permanent chain draws?

What if the person who bolted it was taller?

The only people who care are in this thread.

John Hegyes · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2002 · Points: 4,737

Does the same logic apply to onsight/flash then? If someone hung the draws for me, I can still claim an onsight when I lead it?

Nathan Large · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2016 · Points: 8

If you have to ask then the answer is no.

John Wilder · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2004 · Points: 1,530
John Hegyes wrote:Does the same logic apply to onsight/flash then? If someone hung the draws for me, I can still claim an onsight when I lead it?
I don't see why not if you walk up to a route you have no knowledge of, the draws are already on it, you tie in, and you send.

Imho, chalk gives more beta to an onsight than a pre-hung draw does. There's a 5.12a in Red Rock that regularly bouts 5.13 and up climbers because theres never any chalk on the damn thing. The one time I got on it was a 45 minute flail-fest trying to find the damn holds.
Rob T · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 10
Moof wrote:I call it a pink point, but plenty of folks get their panties in a bunch when you say such truths.
Kind of like "pinkpoint truthers" when you point out that the original definition makes no mention of equipment.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redpoint_(climbing)
ViperScale · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 230

Just get rid of all the terms and lets go with this

All of these are free climbing related. Each group is its own I did not try to compare if top rope on sight was harder than projecting a route for months with bolts etc.

No beta / chalk
- first attempt without rope > First attempt with out metal gear > First attempt with metal gear > first attempt without pre-hung bolts > first attempt with pre-hung bolts > first attempt top rope

With beta / chalk
- first attempt without rope > first attempt with out metal gear > First attempt with metal gear > first attempt without pre-hung bolts > first attempt with pre-hung bolts> first attempt top rope

Multi attempts / practice
- without rope (yes i know u can't do this but u can practice with rope than get rid of it > with out metal gear > with metal gear > without pre-hung bolts > with pre-hung bolts> top rope

s.price · · PS,CO · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 1,348
LL2 wrote:I thought this got settled in the 90s?
I thought people quit caring in the 90's.
Jason Todd · · Cody, WY · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 953

The only people who care are 5.8 trad leaders or old crusties who no longer climb.

David Kerkeslager · · Brooklyn, NY · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 45

This is an activity you're choosing to do, and you get to set the goals for yourself. "It counts" if you did what you wanted to do.

For myself, I just want to get up routes without weighting any protection, so it doesn't matter to me if draws are already up. I might occasionally set a goal to send a route setting the draws myself if it's an interesting route or if I want to work on my endurance. But those are just my goals, you can set whatever goals you want.

For other people, I prefer to just say "I climbed that" and if people want more information, I'll just describe what I did (in this case, whether the draws were up or not). I never use words like "redpoint" because then people start arguments about what the word "redpoint" means, which aren't how I want to spend my time. Just tell the truth about what you climbed and how you climbed it and avoid drama.

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 190

How often do people project/redpoint routes where you have to hand-hang the draws, anyways? Can you imagine cleaning your route after every burn? It's just silly.

ViperScale · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 230

If you want a proper send you need to carry a pack with a bunch of PBRs in it and everytime you clip a bolt you have to pull one out and chug it. That is the only true way you can call a send.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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