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Harness leg loops and safety?


Original Post
Old lady H · · Boise, Idaho · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 290

Yeah, she's not getting outside. :-(

I wear big gun harnesses, which need to be double backed legs and waist. I wear a small or medium, depending, and noticed I only have a bit of webbing extra on my leg loops in the small, even though the waist cinches up with plenty of extra.

That got me thinking about leg loops.

Some wear them flopping halfway down their thighs, some still need to be doubled back, some can be removed entirely. Which means you could theoretically have them not functioning or completely absent.

Here's the question:

How important are leg loops to the harness as a whole?

Obviously comfort is a huge factor, and I doubt anyone is excited to go to anything that is waist only. Just me stuck and curious.

My guess is it wouldn't be a fatal error, you'd still be in a harness, and through the tie in points, but maybe really cream your rib cage in a big fall?

Yes, it's a goofy question. We're hoping to climb here Friday, but there's Gdfing snow in the forecast. And maybe bird closures.

Ah well.

Best, OLH

Seth Jones · · New Lenox, IL · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 25

Remove leg loops and you have a swami belt. Nothing more to it. Would I want to take a lead fall on one? Nope. Would I want to catch a lead fall on one? Nope. Would the dying be happening? Nope, just wouldn't feel good.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 275

You know, Helen, you don't have to post every thought that comes to your mind. :)

And yes, neither do I.

Brian · · North Kingstown, RI · Joined Sep 2001 · Points: 650

This won't effect you but if a guy wears his leg loops too lose and he takes a whipper they will ride up quickly and he will be singing soprano for awhile.

Nick Sweeney · · Spokane, WA · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 650
Old lady H wrote:it wouldn't be a fatal error, you'd still be in a harness, and through the tie in points, but maybe really cream your rib cage in a big fall
Another quality MP thread closed!
Bill Czajkowski · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 30
Brian wrote:This won't effect you but if a guy wears his leg loops too lose and he takes a whipper they will ride up quickly and he will be singing soprano for awhile.
I doubt that's really true. On most harnesses the leg loops connect in the front through the belay loop (diaper harnesses aside). Again, for most harnesses, adjusting the leg loops just makes them bigger around the leg. I think in most falls that would mean either the forces go more directly onto the waist belt (swami style) or it catches the leg loops under your knees and pulls your knees up somewhat. You can adjust the rise on some/all? of the Metolius harnesses but I doubt it would change much in terms of catching falls.

I suspect loose leg loops only decrease the comfort of the harness in a fall. I seem to recall concern about breaking ribs with harsh falls in a swami but I personally have never tried to test that idea.
Brian · · North Kingstown, RI · Joined Sep 2001 · Points: 650
Bill Czajkowski wrote: I doubt that's really true. On most harnesses the leg loops connect in the front through the belay loop (diaper harnesses aside). Again, for most harnesses, adjusting the leg loops just makes them bigger around the leg. I think in most falls that would mean either the forces go more directly onto the waist belt (swami style) or it catches the leg loops under your knees and pulls your knees up somewhat. You can adjust the rise on some/all? of the Metolius harnesses but I doubt it would change much in terms of catching falls. I suspect loose leg loops only decrease the comfort of the harness in a fall. I seem to recall concern about breaking ribs with harsh falls in a swami but I personally have never tried to test that idea.
Bill your post is qualified with "I doubt" which I appreciate that you are not stating fact without actually experiencing it (as many do on MP). I have actually experienced a big whipper that pinched my gonads in a big way. Modern Black Diamond harness. I attribute it to having the leg loops too lose.
Old lady H · · Boise, Idaho · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 290

Actually, what I have seen change, MUCH for the better, us how construction safety esses are worn and used. They used to be pretty token decades ago, and using them in a reasonable manner looks to be the norm, not the exception. Construction is still probably more dangerous than what we do!

And thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt, Frank. You know. Thoughts. Head. :-)

H.

Old lady H · · Boise, Idaho · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 290
Brian wrote: Bill your post is qualified with "I doubt" which I appreciate that you are not stating fact without actually experiencing it (as many do on MP). I have actually experienced a big whipper that pinched my gonads in a big way. Modern Black Diamond harness. I attribute it to having the leg loops too lose.
Oooo! We ladies do cringe in sympathy.
Seth Jones · · New Lenox, IL · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 25

Yeah, my junk has taken first hand abuse from loose leg loops. Like blue balls and the female orgasm, that shit is real.

Bill Czajkowski · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 30
Brian wrote: Bill your post is qualified with "I doubt" which I appreciate that you are not stating fact without actually experiencing it (as many do on MP). I have actually experienced a big whipper that pinched my gonads in a big way. Modern Black Diamond harness. I attribute it to having the leg loops too lose.
Alright, I guess the proof's in the...well, whatever it's in!
Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 310

Swami belts work just fine.... and they keep you upright, I have never herd of broken ribs, but im' sure it could happen and probably has. We all used Swami belts BITD, for aid climbing and free climbing.... one needed a thing called a Butt Bag that you carried in your pocket, to use at a hanging stance, I don't think those things are made anymore... Wallers use a deluxe version now that you cant carry in your pocket.

I personally know of someone who fell about 80 on Stoners Hwy... her hip and femur got broken badly due to the out of position leg loop.... to low.

H please feel free to ask any thing that comes to your mind.... thats what the net is for.

Old lady H · · Boise, Idaho · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 290

Thanks, Guy. After all, I'm not the only one who wastes time on the internet.

Uhhh, not calling y'all slackers...Well, sorta.

H.

John Barritt · · OKC · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 1,053

H, I climbed in a sewn swami and leg loops for years. Duane Raleigh started selling some gear out of his house/van BITD. I bought a fish Padded swami and loops from him that was stupid comfortable. I wore it completely out.

Never ever had any desire to go without the loops, ever, as others have stated too loose can be a comfort issue in a fall same as none.

I think I get the gist of your question though. If the tag ends of your harness loops are too short or too long and you take a leader fall you won't die as result. JB

Old lady H · · Boise, Idaho · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 290

John, knowing there was a world before leg loops is also part of what made me wonder what would happen if they vaporized somehow. Like I said, snow in the forecast.

Would someone please kidnap me to a warm, deep water solo locale? Purdy pleeeeze?

H.

John Barritt · · OKC · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 1,053

It's been in the 70s here......sorry.

Check this out.

fishproducts.com/catalog/sw…

JB

Old lady H · · Boise, Idaho · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 290
John Barritt wrote:It's been in the 70s here......sorry. Check this out. fishproducts.com/catalog/sw… JB
No, you are not sorry, and I hate you...

But, enquiring minds gotta know, did you flaunt it in the Zebra, Bovine, or Ocelot?

H.
John Barritt · · OKC · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 1,053

You are close H, mine was purple and black houndstooth it went awesome with my black Kevlar chalk bag with pink skulls wearing Mohawks and my purple and pink resin Rose climbing shoes.

MC had the zebra one though it was pretty cool.

No, I did not wear Lycra tights.

Old lady H · · Boise, Idaho · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 290
John Barritt wrote:You are close H, mine was purple and black houndstooth it went awesome with my black Kevlar chalk bag with pink skulls wearing Mohawks and my purple and pink resin Rose climbing shoes. MC had the zebra one though it was pretty cool. No, I did not wear Lycra tights.
Haha! Thanks for feeding my overactive imagination! You scored post 14, so I'm required to go do housework or somethin'.

Who's MC? Still available for public embarrassing?

Aren't we overdue for a Lycra thread??

Best, Helen
John Barritt · · OKC · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 1,053
Old lady H wrote: Who's MC? Still available for public embarrassing?
Monty Coffman, one of my old climbing buds. Unfortunately he's been gone for years now. Dude was nuts. JB
Old lady H · · Boise, Idaho · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 290

I had my harness out the other day, getting all the outside stuff packed back on, after taking it off for a trip to the gym.

Chagrined to say, decided to really inspect the harness, and found that the elastic bits in the back are adjustable buckles! Never paid attention, just let the things do what they wanted.

And, one of them was as far out as it could go, without being undone entirely. Oops.

I also noticed these, though, and was wondering if this dinky bit of fabric, both sides, on both loops, is supposed to store your cigars or something, or just there to make a butt ugly harness (Big Gun) purty?

harness...what??

It's snowing again and I seriously regret no longer having firearms around, not that blasting them at the sky would help...

OLH
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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