KEEP HIDDEN VALLEY, RYAN, AND JUMBO ROCK FIRST COME CAMPING!!!!!


Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 1,635

I feel sorry for the non-climbers that want to camp in the park.

Happiegrrrl · · Gunks · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 0

I noticed a "host ste" at Hidden Valley when I walked through a few weeks ag. In that great site where, I understand, Chongo had his sewing center set up BITD. It appeared to be a legitimate set up, with "reserved for Campground Host" signs.

Two vehicles parked, looked like climber without huge resources type of vehicle.

My first thought was "Grrrr - How did I not KNOW about this and try for it?"

I would laugh so well if I found out someone just put those signs up and has had the run of the place all season......(I'm sure that's not the case, and that it would not be "overlooked" by rangers driving through - but the idea of it being possible....hilarious.

Maureen Maguire · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 0

My experience is that people already "reserve" their campsite by driving out midweek to put some tags on sites they plan to use a few days later.

Secondly they often don't actually pay for them, just put up the tags. Rangers don't check.

Sean · · Oak Park, CA · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,378

no, a tag alone isn't enough. rule is the site has to be occupied. rangers do check. i have seen them do it. they would remove that tag. if i were looking for a site, i would remove that too. if the placer of that holder tag were nearby and object, that person could either remove it him/herself, or we could have the ranger come remove that along with handing out a citation carrying a hefty fine. if caught holding a site for someone else, the fine is a hundred sixty some dollars, or maybe more by now (that happened to someone couple yrs ago). their choice

Jeff Lee11 · · Thousand Oaks, CA · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 35
Sean wrote:no, a tag alone isn't enough. rule is the site has to be occupied. rangers do check. i have seen them do it. they would remove that tag. if i were looking for a site, i would remove that too. if the placer of that holder tag were nearby and object, that person could either remove it him/herself, or we could have the ranger come remove that along with handing out a citation carrying a hefty fine. if caught holding a site for someone else, the fine is a hundred sixty some dollars, or maybe more by now (that happened to someone couple yrs ago). their choice
If you manage to snag a site in the morning, you have to stay there all day to be able to use it at night?
Sean · · Oak Park, CA · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,378

i didn't say you have to stay all day at a site to be able to use it at night

people are out climbing or hiking with no one present at their occupied site all the time

know the rules

Happiegrrrl · · Gunks · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 0

It used to be(maybe as short time back as five years) that if there was a tag and campchair, or fuel cannister, or water jug set out in prominent sight, the site was taken. True, sometimes saved for a friend, but also sometimes a minimal person who bivy's in the open and preferred to not lost their cooking stove, sleeping bag and other things while they were out for the day.

With the rise in demand, that just couldn't continue. People look at "that" and think it is a "saved site, and not paid for," which may, or may NOT, be true.

If you snag a site in the morning and go out for the day, best to leave a more reliable indicator that you will be back. If your campchair looks like it came out of the dumpster, especially one that can't support weight, a desperate camper is going to "suspect" it is not a "paid for site." Use your head. If you have a bin of food that can withstand the sun and exposure to animals, that is a better "placeholder." Take the few minutes to set up and tie down your tent if you will use one. Make it obvious that you HAVE taken and paid for the site.

I don't really think that many people are trying to "save" sites for friends anymore, although I would say that it does still happen on a small basis.

Fat Dad · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 5

As happy suggested, sometimes leaving stuff isn't enough. I had a tent pitches, chairs out and still have found others in my site when I got back.

Happiegrrrl · · Gunks · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 0

Several years ago, I had an entire set up at the site next to Stem Gem. Tent, picnic table with two burner cook stove, etc. Obviously "lived in."

Came back after going to town in the evening to a car parked in the spot, another tent set up, and more than half the table covered with "their stuff."

I called out "WTF?" and heard a couple, guy and gorl, talking in the tent. The fly unzips and a young woman sticks her head out and says something like "We couldn't find an open site...." Np - Hey, I know we intruded, but there was nothing open and it looked like you might not be a two-car group and we were waiting up to talk to you."

She was very much like "This is the best we could do, and if you hadn't a tent set up, we would be insisting this was "our" site right now. No offer whatsoever to share the cost.

I was angry, and said they were lucky I didn't have a second car in my party, and that I could insist they leave but I wasn't that much of an asshole(because although I definitely CAN be, at that moment, I did have the ability to understand their situation, even if they engaged with me in a different way than I would have done were the situation reversed - although...I would never just set up in someone else's spot, no matter what).

The next morning, they stayed in that tent until I went off for something. I got back and they had packed up and left, and they had stuck a five under my stove.

Thing was - I would have been HAPPY to share the site! Even the set up surprise if they had simply left a NOTE out for me to see when I had gotten there.

Happiegrrrl · · Gunks · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 0

OH1 If you have two cars in your party - you'd BEST make that clear when you are away from the site. My suggestion? place a campchair or some other large item in space indicating "this is needed for TWO cars" and secure them so they cannot be moved.

armand rollice · · rancho cucamonga · Joined May 2007 · Points: 70

I gave up trying to get a site several years ago. I had a similar situation as happie girl. Came back from climbing to a family with tents, fire and kids in my site (site 13) that i payed for. I wad willing to share, but they werent , it almost turned into a fight. I even told them we could share. But they insisted my son and I leave. My friend called a ranger, two came and they talked to them and they were yelling and cursing at them and me. The rangers made them leave, I felt bad because they had children, nice parental example by there aggressive behavior
They weren't climbers. They were local residents and when they drove off they called my son and I trash from Arkansas! Well surprise im born and raised in East Los Angeles! The park is a circus it is disturbing. Ive picked up trash, scraped off gum from on top of intersection rock, picked up cigarette and joint butts from the top and base of climbs. Seeing large groups 20 deep trekking through the desert with there crash pads and climbing gear. Ive been going to josh for 20 years and the past 5 years or so i have seen some off the wall stuff. Soon this chaos and overcrowding will also affect the surrounding communitys.

Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 105

It has been at least 30 years ongoing issue--lack of camping-- an example of government management at its finest...

They don't have a clue as to how to fix the problem without spending a jillion dollars on another study....

a simple solution.... expand Jumbo, re-open Lost Horse... confiscate the dam Conn Property and build a RV-campground there charging MAXIMUM per day charges.

And let the Access Fund open up the Climbers camp site... like they wanted to do twenty years ago.

but what do I know?

Sean · · Oak Park, CA · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,378

decades of suffering could only lead to revolution, with muskets, pitchforks, guillotines, and lots of singing

Les JT Camping Misérables

Hobo Greg · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2016 · Points: 25

I'd love to see intersection lot turned into a vehicle camping only campground. So many of us are one or two people living in one vehicle. With only 90 car spots at HV, why not allow those of us who don't need a fire pit or a picnic table or a tent spot to camp for $10 a night instead of $15?

Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 105
Hobo Greg wrote:I'd love to see intersection lot turned into a vehicle camping only campground. So many of us are one or two people living in one vehicle. With only 90 car spots at HV, why not allow those of us who don't need a fire pit or a picnic table or a tent spot to camp for $10 a night instead of $15?
Hobo.... that would be to sensible. The Access Fund did have a great idea but it was shot down.
Craig Stevens · · Ventura, Ca · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 0

Good Luck is all I can say. Remembering JT in the 1970 and 1980s. It wasn't until that comet shooting by did everyone in LA find out about our great little park.

I have since moved on to a area on BLM land. At this newer area won't have these problems for 20 years.

I do believe a for profit campground just outside the park would take a way the RV campers to a point. Pool, hook ups and Saturday night dances what not to love. Call Trump

Happiegrrrl · · Gunks · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 0

I don't agree about the "outside of park" c/g appealing to RVers. They want to drive into the National Park, set up and use the c/site as a yard. They aren't always looking to go for lengthy hikes. A saunter around the campground is a hike for many of them. They can't set up outside the park and say they "did Joshua Tree."

But a c/g outside the park with minimal stuff WOULD appeal to regional weekenders and seasonal visitors who climb and/or hike. Don't put in showers, or washing machines or a pool or any of that carap. Keep it low impact and appealing to the budget-minded instead of the one who wants bang for their buck. Have some "luxe" sites with a picnic table and room for big tents, but for the most part basic, basic, basic. A (reasonably priced)Pay-for water spigot to stop stupid people from washing dishes under the damned thing and a pit toilet.

But I bet it is not so easy to put in a new campground.

DanielHart · · Carpinteria ca · Joined Dec 2016 · Points: 0

I've been climbing here for over 20 years and have seen madness only get madder. I do remember in 97 or 98 it was talked about that people would be bused in and no cars would be allowed in the park due to the harsh impact emission were and are having on the park. I would like to see something done but not sold on reservations being the way. I often find living in Southern California that I have a hard time camping in my local spots due to tourist reserving all siites months before. Thank goodness for blm land. While we all do own the park since our tax dollars pay for it we shouldn't behave that way. It looks like so many feel they have a right to do whatever they have done before. If you have a problem with the crowds quit taking your friends climbing and quit posting pictures of places you have a problem sharing.
I for one would have no problem with user groups being limited. I was out a few months ago and climb smart was doing a clinic where they would rudely weave a web of ropes over what felt like every area I tried to go to. There are more of "us" although some seam less us than others. We have to change the way we use our wilderness. The first time I tried stem gym there was a slight divot in the rock it now looks like a trackhoe grated the face. I would even be willing to take a leave no trace camping certificate course or something to allow me to camp in certain areas. I don't know what the cure is but not all outdoor users are created equal and some people just shouldn't be out there.

Burcheydawwwwwwg · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 375

#catboxproblems
#y'allcankeepit

Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 1,635

#catboxproblems
#y'allcankeepit

EXACTLY!

...

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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