Top roping through figure 8


Original Post
Brendan Chura · Feb 8, 2017 · Rolla, MO · Joined May 2016 · Points: 0
Hey all.
I was out at our local crag yesterday and the group next to me set up a TR anchor and used a locker to clip in a figure 8 rap device through which they ran the rope. Despite the obvious misuse of the device, what is wrong with this? I commented saying I had never seen it before but I couldn't really think of a reason that it was "dangerous" or "stupid." Just thought it was a bad way to wear out a good device. Thoughts?

Nick Sweeney · Feb 8, 2017 · Spokane, WA · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 605
Stupid, but probably safe. Not sure why you would use this method when there are safer and easier options.

ollieon · Feb 8, 2017 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 5
Doesn't seem like a big deal. No different from running a rope through a rap ring and clipping the locker to that.

I know of a few figure 8s gathering dust in people's closets, so at least they're using theirs.

steverett · Feb 8, 2017 · San Diego, CA · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 40
I guess you could argue that it's not redundant, but since there's no gate to open, that's not really a problem unless the figure 8 was really worn.

Since it sounds like they only had one locker too, it might be better than running the rope through the one locker, since the rope can't open it up.

It's very strange though.

Jim Titt · Feb 8, 2017 · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 0
Using a fig8 as a rigging plate and threading the rope through the small eye is taught as a method in the UK, it gives a tamper-proof top anchor and they last for ages.

John Barritt · Feb 8, 2017 · OKC · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 888
It would add friction, like a bar wrap at the gym. A little extra cushion if you are teaching people to belay perhaps or have heavier climbers and want to have some help to slow descents?

Were they using it with a second device or stand alone and fireman braking to lower?

Next time ask, may be some ancient wisdom we're missing. JB

jktinst · Feb 8, 2017 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 0
Adding friction for lighter belayers?
Edit:
Sent at the same time as the previous post not as a question on it

Blakevan · Feb 8, 2017 · Dallas, TX · Joined Sep 2015 · Points: 0
A single locker? Was it set up with no extension if one side failed?

BigNobody · Feb 8, 2017 · all over, mostly Utah · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 0
All this redundancy talk. How many lockers and belay devices and belay loops do you use when you rappel?

NegativeK · Feb 8, 2017 · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 0
BigNobody wrote:All this redundancy talk. How many lockers and belay devices and belay loops do you use when you rappel?
The common argument for no redundancy on your harness is that it's all in your face, where you can see if it things start to go wrong.

BigNobody · Feb 8, 2017 · all over, mostly Utah · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 0
NegativeK wrote: The common argument for no redundancy on your harness is that it's all in your face, where you can see if it things start to go wrong.
So if something "failed" you'd be able to react to it because it's in your face? Riigghhhhtt.

DGraham · Feb 8, 2017 · Dallas · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 811
BigNobody wrote: So if something "failed" you'd be able to react to it because it's in your face? Riigghhhhtt.
if you use a friction hitch to back yourself up that's 2 ways you're attached to the rope (attached to 2 separate portions of your harness). In a way redundant.

Although if your waist belt snapped i'm not sure a prusik attached to your leg loops would help.

I wouldn't be too worried about a figure eight failing, but wouldn't be my first choice.

NegativeK · Feb 8, 2017 · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 0
BigNobody wrote: So if something "failed" you'd be able to react to it because it's in your face? Riigghhhhtt.
I don't think it's that hard to contrive things you could react to. Screwgate comes unscrewed, you fix it. Notice you loaded a belay device backwards, tell the climber to find a stance. Actually, I saw the latter the first time I climbed outside -- so I guess that's less contrived.

To be clear, I'd be comfortable on a top rope anchor with just one locker -- but I can understand people who want more redundancy when it's trivial to add it.

Gunkiemike · Feb 8, 2017 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 1,855
When I realized I'd never use my Figure 8 device for rapping or belaying, I hacksawed it in half (And learned in the process that that alloy is REALLY tough) and used each half as a backwoods rap ring.

Nate Fye · Feb 8, 2017 · punxsutawney pa · Joined Dec 2016 · Points: 0
I use a figure 8 to belay my daughter all the time... I've never thought anything about it. We only climb 25-30 but a fall from that height would still be disastrous, am I a horrible father?

Nathan Self · Feb 8, 2017 · Louisiana · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 20
Nate Fye wrote:I use a figure 8 to belay my daughter all the time... I've never thought anything about it. We only climb 25-30 but a fall from that height would still be disastrous, am I a horrible father?
Using a figure 8 to belay is fine and a-ok, but there are better devices.
The question was about using a figure 8 at the top of the TR--like a rap-ring, an acceptable but unusual usage.

that guy named seb · Feb 8, 2017 · Britland · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 0
Strange but from what I have seen most figure 8s are rated to something stupid like 25kn so it's just as good a rigging plate.

Firestone · Feb 8, 2017 · California · Joined Nov 2015 · Points: 446
While lead belaying, fig8's have nose hooked lockers and broken the carabiner. I could see how a single locker on a top rope could get cross loaded and snap because of the extra moving parts.

I would feel safer with the rope through just one locker than through a fig8 which is attached to one locker. I will always use two carabiners on my top rope anchors and am perfectly fine with neither of them being lockers.

BigNobody · Feb 9, 2017 · all over, mostly Utah · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 0
Firestone wrote:While lead belaying, fig8's have nose hooked lockers and broken the carabiner. I could see how a single locker on a top rope could get cross loaded and snap because of the extra moving parts.
Real life proof. Pics and links please. An obituary describing the accident will suffice as well.

Firestone · Feb 9, 2017 · California · Joined Nov 2015 · Points: 446
caves.org/section/vertical/..." target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Here you go

Lee Durbetaki · Feb 9, 2017 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2016 · Points: 0
From the description of the accident, it doesn't sound as though there was any belaying going on.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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