Thumb loop for post style cams


Original Post
. · · Asheville NC · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 485

Yo
I made dis.
print 2 halves, screw together.

Probably needs a little further refinement. Not sure how this will act when taking weight or a fall. Will probably add flex in that direction in future revisions.
It does, for sure, make finding the thumb placement easier, but anyone with thumb loops already knows that.
This is a work in progress, I am open to suggestions.

This is probably a good Candidate for one of the flexible filaments(ninja flex being the one that comes to mind)

For those of you without printers, there are typically many many places that will do it for you, I think some of the hardware stores are offering this as a servie and there are probably 15 options for online printers.

cheers

Link to CAD files:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2025076/#files

Linky cam

thumb loop up close

gavinsmith · · Toronto, Ontario · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 83

Can you photograph it before installation? Just curious to imagine what'll happen when it's loaded.

. · · Asheville NC · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 485

I dont have it in front of me right now but here is a view of one half that might help you wrap your head around it.

cad view

Tylerpratt · · Litchfield, Connecticut · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 35

yes, anychance you can make it exactly like the BD loop for me? haha...ill buy some from you. for real though. Im tired of being pumped out of my brain and missing a loop that doesnt exist. I will actually buy some off you.

When you refine it.

. · · Asheville NC · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 485

Yes, I need to find an older style C4 cam to model off of and/or get some very accurate dimensions on one. Anyone got a dead cam or super cheap I can have? Might be able to borrow one from our local gear shop's history museum....

Tylerpratt · · Litchfield, Connecticut · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 35

Fucking sweet! I cant believe no one has done this!

Chris Reyes · · Montclair, NJ · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 40

I haven't done any 3d printing, but from playing with a couple of friends projects wouldn't that just shatter when loaded?

Have you hung on it with just bodyweight?

Edit: Just saw the flexible filaments thing. That would indeed be the way to go probably.

. · · Asheville NC · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 485

With the PLA plastic I printed in, yes it will most likely shatter with weight, ABS or Ninja flex are for sure preferred method, I just don't have either of those set up right now. It will look exactly the same though. There are other material options too

Jake Jones · · Richmond, VA · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 1,420

This isn't really a thumb loop. This is akin to the new style of Metolius Master Cams. They went from a thumb loop to this. There's virtually no difference in placing this and placing a cam with just the post. The thumb loop actually provides more rigidity and more maneuverability when placing. But that's because the lower part of the thumb loop was solid and could rest against the lower part of your thumb. With this design, as with the Master Cams, there is nothing solid to rest against, because there's nothing but a sling where the "thumb loop" should be.

Brian L. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 90

Really cool idea, keep up the work!

Tylerpratt · · Litchfield, Connecticut · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 35
Jake Jones wrote:This isn't really a thumb loop. This is akin to the new style of Metolius Master Cams. They went from a thumb loop to this. There's virtually no difference in placing this and placing a cam with just the post. The thumb loop actually provides more rigidity and more maneuverability when placing. But that's because the lower part of the thumb loop was solid and could rest against the lower part of your thumb. With this design, as with the Master Cams, there is nothing solid to rest against, because there's nothing but a sling where the "thumb loop" should be.
So the piece is visible but wont stop my thumb from sliding off the stem?

I do believe you are incorrect.
Brian L. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 90
Jake Jones wrote:This isn't really a thumb loop. This is akin to the new style of Metolius Master Cams. They went from a thumb loop to this. There's virtually no difference in placing this and placing a cam with just the post.
FWIW I find my UL MC's easier to maneuver than an old style BD post. Almost as good as a full thumb loop. The reason is the way the webbing is situated helps guide my thumb to the post, unlike on the the old BD cams. So I do think this would add a benefit.
. · · Asheville NC · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 485
Jake Jones wrote:This isn't really a thumb loop. There's virtually no difference in placing this and placing a cam with just the post.
whole loop:
You are correct it is the business half of a thumb loop, not a full loop.

Placing:
You are incorrect this is more similar to a thumb loop cam than a post cam. Any advantages people see in thumb loops are nearly identical here.
anotherclimber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2016 · Points: 70

It's an interesting idea. Great job with the creativity and thought process behind it! Do you really find it much more difficult to retract a cam without a thumb loop?

I will say for myself that beyond the need for aid climbers to clip into the thumb loop for a bit of extra height, I've never found them necessary to retract the cam quickly and easily. I start with Black Diamond C4 Camalots that have the thumb loop and switched over to Metolius Ultralight Master Cams and had no problem adjusting at all. I actually prefer the Master Cams now for a number of reasons and they are the first on my rack over the C4's.

Tylerpratt · · Litchfield, Connecticut · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 35
anotherclimber wrote:It's an interesting idea. Great job with the creativity and thought process behind it! Do you really find it much more difficult to retract a cam without a thumb loop? I will say for myself that beyond the need for aid climbers to clip into the thumb loop for a bit of extra height, I've never found them necessary to retract the cam quickly and easily. I start with Black Diamond C4 Camalots that have the thumb loop and switched over to Metolius Ultralight Master Cams and had no problem adjusting at all. I actually prefer the Master Cams now for a number of reasons and they are the first on my rack over the C4's.
So what happened to me more times than I can count. I place ten pieces all with a thumb loop. I snag a piece off my gear loops that doesnt have a thumb loop. All of a sudden my thumb is missing the stem over and over. Sometimes this happens in a place that is desperate or difficult to protect.

even if these pieces did break semi easily if they were cheap enough I would still purchase them. I would rather spend $1.50 USD on a new thumb catch and be more comfortable with placing my old BD's.
. · · Asheville NC · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 485

Look guys, I am sharing something I designed for free with the community, anyone can now take this file and have it printed anywhere in the world, by simply downloading the file and sourcing a printer. I'm really not here to argue the merits of thumb loops. Please start another thread if you would like to discuss this aspect. I am well aware that many climbers prefer them over the post style and some don't.

Don't like it?
Don't use it. That simple.

If you have comments on tweeks or other ways to improve it I am all ears happy to discuss for all who are interested.

Thanks

steverett · · San Diego, CA · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 105
anotherclimber wrote:It's an interesting idea. Great job with the creativity and thought process behind it! Do you really find it much more difficult to retract a cam without a thumb loop? I will say for myself that beyond the need for aid climbers to clip into the thumb loop for a bit of extra height, I've never found them necessary to retract the cam quickly and easily. I start with Black Diamond C4 Camalots that have the thumb loop and switched over to Metolius Ultralight Master Cams and had no problem adjusting at all. I actually prefer the Master Cams now for a number of reasons and they are the first on my rack over the C4's.
I don't have any trouble retracting the cam, it's getting my thumb in the right place to begin with. I haven't tried the new Mastercams yet, but I do find the 3rd gen camalot a bit harder to place than the C4, at least it the bigger sizes - the weight of the lobes makes it flop around more and harder to get my thumb on the stem.

The UL Mastercam stem looks different from the older camalots (a bit wider) so it might be easier to use. However this does look useful for my older camalots. I think a semi-flexible plastic would be best.
shoo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 75
Kyle Cobbler wrote:Look guys, I am sharing something I designed for free with the community, anyone can now take this file and have it printed anywhere in the world, by simply downloading the file and sourcing a printer. I'm really not here to argue the merits of thumb loops. Please start another thread if you would like to discuss this aspect. I am well aware that many climbers prefer them over the post style and some don't. Don't like it? Don't use it. That simple. If you have comments on tweeks or other ways to improve it I am all ears happy to discuss for all who are interested. Thanks
Of all the silly shit that people on these forums make to try to reinvent or improve on something, this is one of the few that actually seems like it could be a good idea. If you refine it more, I may even have a buddy print one for me to play with on my very own gold link cam.

Seems like a good candidate for the "flexible" printing material from formlabs if you're printing with one of those.
steverett · · San Diego, CA · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 105
Kyle Cobbler wrote:Look guys, I am sharing something I designed for free with the community, anyone can now take this file and have it printed anywhere in the world, by simply downloading the file and sourcing a printer. I'm really not here to argue the merits of thumb loops. Please start another thread if you would like to discuss this aspect. I am well aware that many climbers prefer them over the post style and some don't. Don't like it? Don't use it. That simple. If you have comments on tweeks or other ways to improve it I am all ears happy to discuss for all who are interested. Thanks
As a stress engineer, I would suggest that it looks like the middle could use some thickening up; it's a potential load path that's also one of the thinnest sections. You could bring it up to the level of the side arms without raising the profile of the part overall, and add a lot more strength.

That's just my initial impression/intuition with no evidence to support :) Overall, great job and nice design!

Loads in blue, weak(?) area in red

2 possible shapes
Jake Jones · · Richmond, VA · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 1,420
Kyle Cobbler wrote:Look guys, I am sharing something I designed for free with the community, anyone can now take this file and have it printed anywhere in the world, by simply downloading the file and sourcing a printer. I'm really not here to argue the merits of thumb loops. Please start another thread if you would like to discuss this aspect. I am well aware that many climbers prefer them over the post style and some don't. Don't like it? Don't use it. That simple. If you have comments on tweeks or other ways to improve it I am all ears happy to discuss for all who are interested. Thanks
Kyle, I think what you have done is very inventive and has numerous applications. Thank you for sharing it. I didn't mean to piss on your parade.
. · · Asheville NC · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 485
steverett wrote: As a stress engineer, I would suggest that it looks like the middle could use some thickening up; it's a potential load path that's also one of the thinnest sections. You could bring it up to the level of the side arms without raising the profile of the part overall, and add a lot more strength. That's just my initial impression/intuition with no evidence to support :) Overall, great job and nice design!
Steverett for the win, Will tweek the designs as soon as I can!
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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