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diet experiments


Original Post
kenr · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 11,659

My latest try is super-high fiber, to make me feel full longer.
Be glad to hear about other climbers' experiments and ideas.

So far this super-high fiber approach has worked to take off the 6 pounds I gained during a previous experiment, and stabilize my weight without my needing to Count Calories.
. (Counting Calories always works for me, and I'm well-practiced with good software for it, but I hate doing it so I only resort to it when desperate).

Super-high fiber means that I start with what most people and dieticians would call a high-fiber vegetarian diet, then add to almost everything either cellulose powder (for Insoluble fiber) or psyllium-husk powder (for Soluble fiber).

One big change is that while I'm out for a day of crag climbing, where I used to always bring bread and yogurt for "fuel", now I only bring along a plastic container with cooked low-calorie vegetables mixed with spices and wine vinegar and psyllium-husk powder.

I went through a previous stage of "merely high fiber". I learned what were the highest-fiber "real" foods with various desired accompaniments of high-protein or perhaps low-fat (or non-low fat?) and usually low-fructose. That didn't seem to fill me up enough to keep my weight down (without Counting Calories).

But it was the next stage of trying "higher fat" to make me feel full longer that really drove my weight up. Which led me to my latest experiment.

Now I seem stable -- at about 5 pounds higher than my (temporary) lowest weight since I started climbing seriously six years ago -- but still 8 pounds lower than my long-term weight before I started climbing.

Ken

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 190

So the Vegan rock climbing dude actually has a rather non conventional approach:
youtu.be/wv-21ReM_BI

First time I've heard someone recommend a high carb diet for weight loss, but it obviously works for him. He had similar results re: high fat diets, although his rationale is wrong (dietary fat is not automatically converted into body fat). His point about caloric density is interesting, however. I think that people tend to erroneously lump all carbs together, but the fiber content of whole grains makes a big difference. High fiber sounds like a promising approach.

Jesse Rigsby · · Eagleville,Tennessee · Joined Nov 2015 · Points: 45

What has worked the best for me is eating eggs... like 2 eggs every morning and one at lunch, cooked however you prefer. Eggs have a protein in them that supercharges the metabolism. I went from 165 to 147 in 4 months.

SmithVentures · · Fayetteville, West Virginia · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 160

I tried a higher fat diet as well for about a month. My main focus was the 'bulletproof' coffee but ate pretty regularly (low-carb, lean meats, little sugar, and lots of veggies) the rest of the time. I felt good for awhile but ended up gaining about 8 pounds.

amockalypsenow · · San Diego · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 715

ive weighed the same since 17. I'm going on 32 now and have had plenty of different diets- apparently my body can pretty much jive with different fuels. I eat high fat at the moment. My shape can change depending on my activity. My wife is very skinny and eats tons of carbs and eggs and has had wildly different diets- but she has not changed much. What's the takeaway: diet hasn't made much difference in my experience. Bodies are quite flexible when it comes to food.

that guy named seb · · Britland · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 205

I use to weigh at a super duper light weight of 61kg (134 pounds) that was about 14 months ago all i did to gain to my max weight i have been (67kg 158 pounds) was drink 2 liters of full fat milk every single day that's over 1400 calories a day just from milk and still eating as i did before. My daily calorie intake as of just over 2 weeks ago was a whopping 3,500 calories (i eat nearly the same thing every single day), all i have done now is drop the milk and i have lost 2kg in just over 2 weeks with my morning weight being at 67kg where before it was at 69kg.
For now no perceived negative effects of drastically cutting my calories, as i said before i have lost weight though i can not comment if i'm feeling any stronger as a result as i haven't been doing any hard bouldering in quite a while more lots of outdoors trying to gain some mileage with allot of solo top roping, but i'm hoping to some hard sport climb tomorrow so will see how i feel.
1 day later
I did some bouldering and felt pretty strong the 45's on the beastmaker felt easier to hold onto and my project almost went, some how cutting out over 1/3 of all my calories has had 0 negative effects.

kenr · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 11,659
Ted Pinson wrote:His point about caloric density is interesting
What is his point about caloric density?
. (since I'm not much into waiting thru 15 minutes of video).

Ted Pinson wrote:the fiber content of whole grains makes a big difference.
I searched and compiled lots of data about Fiber content as a ratio to Calories, and found that there were wide differences among different varieties of "whole grains" and with different kinds of processing. A big winner on Fiber-to-Calories ratio was Wheat Bran, but I just couldn't learn to like the taste.
Also there are wide differences among grains on soluble fiber versus insoluble fiber -- and I'd guess it's likely that makes a difference for "feeling full" for a longer time after eating, but I haven't seen much convincing studies or theory about that.

Ted Pinson wrote:So the Vegan rock climbing dude ...
I don't regard living on a Vegan diet as very difficult. I just happen to like the taste of ice cream -- so I include dairy -- which makes my diet non-vegan. But getting enough protein and vitamins on a vegan diet seems to me like no problem, since my main sources of protein are soy and pea.

"raw vegan" -- now that sounds difficult to me.

Ken
amockalypsenow · · San Diego · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 715

Raw vegan = expensive in my experience. My lady was doing that for a while and we spent so much more Dang money on food.

kenr · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 11,659

Yes I found it was cheaper to buy frozen vegetables, and microwave them as needed - (at least around where I live).

I guess our food distribution system finds it more expensive to transport and preserve fresh (green + yellow) vegetables.

Also frozen saves me time because they're pre-cut and pre-measured.
. (and of consistent freshness).

Ken

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 190
kenr wrote: What is his point about caloric density? . (since I'm not much into waiting thru 15 minutes of video). I searched and compiled lots of data about Fiber content as a ratio to Calories, and found that there were wide differences among different varieties of "whole grains" and with different kinds of processing. A big winner on Fiber-to-Calories ratio was Wheat Bran, but I just couldn't learn to like the taste. Also there are wide differences among grains on soluble fiber versus insoluble fiber -- and I'd guess it's likely that makes a difference for "feeling full" for a longer time after eating, but I haven't seen much convincing studies or theory about that. I don't regard living on a Vegan diet as very difficult. I just happen to like the taste of ice cream -- so I include dairy -- which makes my diet non-vegan. But getting enough protein and vitamins on a vegan diet seems to me like no problem, since my main sources of protein are soy and pea. "raw vegan" -- now that sounds difficult to me. Ken
Fats have higher caloric densities than Carbohydrates (probably due to insoluble fiber). Therefore, you end up consuming more calories under a high fat diet.
Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 2,745
Ted Pinson wrote: Fats have higher caloric densities than Carbohydrates (probably due to insoluble fiber).
Learn your basics. Fats have > 2X the calories of carbos. Fiber can make some of the veggie calories unavailable, but it has nothing to do with the 9 kcal vs 4 kcal fat/carb ratio.
Michael C · · New Jersey · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 340

I'm on a high-fat diet and found it keeps me feeling full and my energy levels are good.

I had a physical two months ago and mentioned this to my doctor. I'd been on the high fat diet for probably 4 months at that point. My blood work and cholesterol came back perfectly fine. And my weight actually came down from the previous year.

Mostly coming from A LOT of eggs, full fat yogurt, heavy cream in coffee, using butter for cooking/flavoring, and choosing more fattier meats (steaks) over lean meats like chicken.

I also live/train a particular way. I do quite a bit of running, walking/hiking, and my weight-training is high reps/low weights. A high-fat diet might not work for someone with a different lifestyle and fitness goals.

kenr · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 11,659
Ted Pinson wrote:Fats have higher caloric densities than Carbohydrates
Calories per Gram is the simple argument against a high fat diet. And it's the main reason I don't eat much fat. Along with that I do not need much fat in my food in order for it to "taste good" to me.

But we usually don't eat fat or carbohydrate or protein in pure form, and most of us don't budget how much we eat by "total food Weight" per day.

Fat and other nutrients usually come "packaged" with water or fiber, which reduces the overall calories-per-gram density of the food that contains Fat.
. (Oddly the numbers listed for each food in one of the most famous books about calorie density is confusing on this question of mixing with Water).

For me the key "density" ratio is not Calories per Gram but Calories per "unit of sustained Feeling Full". Mixing nutrients with additional Water greatly reduces the Calories per Gram "density", but in the long run does not succeed with "sustained Feeling Full" density, for me and most people.

Managing weight in real life is not simple.

Ken
Jon Clark · · Philadelphia, PA · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 521
kenr wrote: Managing weight in real life is not simple. Ken
On the contrary it is quite simple. It isn't easy at times, but it certainly isn't complicated.
Michael C · · New Jersey · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 340

Totally off topic for Ken R...

I saw you cleaning rock a few weeks back at the Powerlinez. It was near Basilisk. If I was facing Basilisk, it would be to the climber's right and up and around that corner.

What's that area called?

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 190
Gunkiemike wrote: Learn your basics. Fats have > 2X the calories of carbos. Fiber can make some of the veggie calories unavailable, but it has nothing to do with the 9 kcal vs 4 kcal fat/carb ratio.
Not seeing how this is any different from what I just said. Btw, a kilocalorie is just a nutritional Calorie, which is the implied unit of energy, so expressing your units in kcal is rather pretentious. If you want to be truly gangster, you should be using kiloJoules. :p
kenr · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 11,659

My "super-fiber" strategy is working better than I expected. I've now lost 10 pounds in the last three-and-a-half months. Without resorting to my usual previous method of counting calories.

In the last month I've expanding it, so now I sprinkle fiber powder on almost everything I eat: . salads - toasted bread - even ice cream. Found out which of my two fiber powders tastes better with which other foods. Even bring a little container along on those rare occasions when I go out to a restaurant: Order the most "healthy" and fiber-full food I can find on the menu and then add yet more fiber.

Of course now like every other successful new diet method, I expect I'll be gaining back 5 pounds in the next couple of months, so I can settle into the usual status of so many American male climbers of remembering and wishing for when I weighed 5 pounds less.

Ken

Russ Keane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 145

Veganism is the solution to so many health problems.

Jon W · · Longmont Colorado · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 95

To clear up something: fat vs. carbohydrate caloric density. Look up Krebs cycles and fatty acid oxidation to get the correct understanding.

Point is, a fat of the same molecular size (carbon count) will have 4 to 6 times more calories (unit of heat) than the same size carbohydrate molecule. Thus, a lot more energy density in fat. It has nothing to do with fiber content. It has everything to do with how it is metabolized and how we generate ATP (ATP is energy).

Disclaimer: it's been 25 years since I took biochem, so look it up.

Matt Himmelstein · · Orange, California · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 125

Cut your caloric intake by about 1/3 full time, and once every 3 weeks, go on a 3 day semi-fast, where you consume about 500 calories a day. I call it my chemo diet and lost about 20 pounds in 9 weeks that way.

I don't suggest my radiation diet, where I lived off 300 to 700 calories a day (minus what I was throwing up, thanks fentanyl) for a month and lost 40 pounds.

The bottom line is that you need to consume fewer calories. I was lucky (so to speak) in that I had other issues and never got hungry even as I was shedding pounds. Drink plenty of water and eat high fiber/low calorie foods (as you are seeing) to see if you can beat the feeling of hunger.

kenr · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 11,659
Jon W wrote:fat of the same molecular size (carbon count) will have 4 to 6 times more calories than the same size carbohydrate molecule.
I can see how this is valuable for people who count their molecules as they eat.

But how do we make that info actionable for the rest of who mostly don't want to count anything while we eat?
. . (And those who do have the energy to enforce their discipline to "count" their food are going to base it on overall weight or volume, not molecules).

Also for those of us who know we're not very good at resisting feelings of hunger, so we're wondering how to trade off the calories (whether counted or not) in the food we're eating right now versus how much it will delay or reduce feelings of hunger to eat more calories later.

How does this "molecule / calorie density" info impact that?

Ken
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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