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60' Ground fall belayer drop


Kyle Edmondson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 20
T Roper wrote:Personally I dont pull or grip tight so I know how much weight the device takes and that would be all of it every time.
This would be my experience as well.
T Roper · · Masshole · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 860
Kyle Edmondson wrote: This would be my experience as well.
and many others who really use the device and dont spray about using it.
Stagg54 Taggart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 10
Kedron Silsbee wrote: On the other hand, most people have an incapacitated belayer either 0 or 1 times during their climbing career.
If it is such a small chance, then why are we even having this discussion?
Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 190
T Roper wrote: and many others who really use the device and dont spray about using it.
T, I'm starting to wonder if your account has been hacked or if you are an Aleks-style troll. For what reason would I possibly lie about using a Grigri?! It's not like we are talking about onsighting 5.13 here. When I lead belay with a Grigri, I belay very similarly to how I would with an ATC, including maintaining a firm grip on the break hand and always locking off the break during a fall. Obviously, it has caught every time, but it's a big leap to extrapolate what would happen if I were not holding the brake, nor would I ever jeopardize my partner's safety by testing this. It sounds like you are using the device incorrectly. A Grigri is an assisted braking device, meaning that it is designed to assist YOU in catching the climber's fall, not catch the fall itself. I've seen people try to argue that belaying with a Grigri is "redundant" because "the belayer is there as a backup," which is a perfect illustration of the fallacious thinking that appears to be causing so many accidents. For more information, I recommend these resources:
youtu.be/FHdqjjyeTtg
www.climbing.com/skills/grigri-basics/

Stay safe out there!
apoet · · AZ · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 193
Stagg54 wrote: If it is such a small chance, then why are we even having this discussion?
Because the consequences are extremely high even if the chances are small.
Billcoe · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 655

There was clearly nothing to be done. Shrugs. Yer all gonna get dropped if not sooner then later. Doesn't matter what device, it's inevitable. Best you can hope for is to make sure yer wearing your helmet! Maybe you'll survive. Maybe not. It's coming.

So wear your helmet!

Stagg54 Taggart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 10
apoet wrote: Because the consequences are extremely high even if the chances are small.
how about the chance is almost non-existant... Unless like the OP you like to chuck holds at your belayer.

If you are smart about it, avoid chosspiles and station belayer out of the fall line, then you shouldn't really have any problems.
20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,348
Stagg54 wrote: how about the chance is almost non-existant...
Agreed. We could also talk about harness failure, belay-station failure, figure eights coming untied, belay biners breaking from crossloading, the list goes on and on. There are a million things that could kill, but fortunately many of them are extremely rare which allows us to focus on the things that actually do hurt climbers like poor belaying, complacency, lack of attention to detail and lack of proper training.
Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,280

Gris and ATCs are both death traps. Many people have been dropped on both. If you want to avoid the problem buy this:

rei.com/product/867679/edel…

Fat Dad · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 60
Billcoe wrote:There was clearly nothing to be done. Shrugs. Yer all gonna get dropped if not sooner then later. Doesn't matter what device, it's inevitable. Best you can hope for is to make sure yer wearing your helmet! Maybe you'll survive. Maybe not. It's coming. So wear your helmet!
I disagree. You have woefully low expectations of your belayers.
Stagg54 Taggart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 10
Tradoholic wrote:Gris and ATCs are both death traps. Many people have been dropped on both. If you want to avoid the problem buy this: rei.com/product/867679/edel…
I have one. It works. But its not entirely foolproof either. It can be threaded backwards.

Here is an even better one.
wildcountry.com/revo/

Walking disasters will still find a way to subvert those by doing something dumb like not doubleback their harness or clipping it to a gear loop or something...
Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,280
Stagg54 wrote: I have one. It works. But its not entirely foolproof either. It can be threaded backwards. Here is an even better one. wildcountry.com/revo/ Walking disasters will still find a way to subvert those by doing something dumb like not doubleback their harness or clipping it to a gear loop or something...
Revo looks heavy and you can't even rappel on it!
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Billcoe wrote:There was clearly nothing to be done. Shrugs. Yer all gonna get dropped if not sooner then later. Doesn't matter what device, it's inevitable. Best you can hope for is to make sure yer wearing your helmet! Maybe you'll survive. Maybe not. It's coming.
You're not serious, are you?
If so, perhaps you need to do a much better job of vetting your partners.
In 45 yrs of climbing, I and every one of my partners have never been dropped. Ever.
Jake Jones · · Richmond, VA · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 1,480
Billcoe wrote:There was clearly nothing to be done. Shrugs. Yer all gonna get dropped if not sooner then later. Doesn't matter what device, it's inevitable. Best you can hope for is to make sure yer wearing your helmet! Maybe you'll survive. Maybe not. It's coming. So wear your helmet!
Hahaha. No.
USBRIT Ross · · Keswick Cumbria.UK · Joined Apr 2001 · Points: 21,373
Marc801 wrote: You're not serious, are you? If so, perhaps you need to do a much better job of vetting your partners. In 45 yrs of climbing, I and every one of my partners have never been dropped. Ever.
Your just one person and a few friends ... your experience well before the thousands of indoor wall folk and sport climbers came rushing into the outdoors
Jake Jones · · Richmond, VA · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 1,480
USBRIT wrote: Your just one person and a few friends ... your experience well before the thousands of indoor wall folk and sport climbers came rushing into the outdoors
Oh man, here you go. It's not an indoors/outdoors thing. It's not a "my sack is bigger than yours peon gym vs true outdoor hardman" thing. Here's the short list of prolific climbers that have made mistakes, and not just belaying either. Preventable mistakes- every one of them. Lynn Hill- tie-in. John Long- tie-in. Alex Honnold- lowered off the end of a rope. So really, would you say these pioneers and general bold, bad ass outdoor climbers have the derision coming? And from you? I'd wager not.

Now, granted, taking both hands off the rope and not having the common sense and the presence of mind to simply try to move AND save yourself and climber seems ridiculous, but to blatantly blame it on "oh, another gym climber" when you don't actually know if that's true, seems a bit curmudgeonly.

And trust me, I'm no proponent of climbers being introduced and trained indoors venturing outside en masse. But this isn't going away and just throwing a blanket snide remark on it isn't going to help.
T Roper · · Masshole · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 860
Jake Jones wrote: But this isn't going away and just throwing a blanket snide remark on it isn't going to help.
Jake, maybe its your admin status that has heightened your sensitivity or maybe you are just an overly sensitive guy but what he said was true 100% and the numbers are growing, similarly to the n00bs on Mtn Proj who are now experts on everything to do with climbing and want to tell everyone all about it. Could the two go hand in hand???
Jake Jones · · Richmond, VA · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 1,480
T Roper wrote: Jake, maybe its your admin status that has heightened your sensitivity or maybe you are just an overly sensitive guy but what he said was true 100% and the numbers are growing, similarly to the n00bs on Mtn Proj who are now experts on everything to do with climbing and want to tell everyone all about it. Could the two go hand in hand???
Perhaps, and that certainly is possible. And if someone shows me where this person has been proven to be an inexperienced gym gumby (not just an assumption that this is the case because of the mistake that was made) then I'll happily eat my words. My point is this: though there certainly are droves of gym climbers venturing outside and causing some issues (hence the need for a Rock Project), everything that's a stupid mistake shouldn't be attributed to that by default.

Look, because I started climbing in my mid thirties and because I was largely self taught and never relied on a gym, guides or classes to progress, I have a healthy respect for humility and the learning process and being self sufficient. So, do entitled and ignorant gumbies piss me off? Just as much as the next person. Sure. But you don't fix a problem by writing it off, and you shouldn't assume anything about anyone until you're sure about it. That's all I'm saying.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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