Grip size X-dream vs Nomic (big gloves), also pick weights?


Original Post
jdejace · · New England · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 10

I'm looking to add a set of ergo handle type tools to my gear closet for steeper ice. I may wait until Ice Fest and try climbing with them back-to-back, or I might succumb to temptation during the upcoming holiday sales since by all accounts none of the latest tools suck.

The Nomics feel good as you'd expect coming from Quarks, and I think with the adjustable pommel I could squeeze my Alti gloves (I wear Medium) in there on arctic cold days. Obviously I prefer to climb in thinner gloves but I like having the option. On some tools I've checked out with no adjustment (eg Tech Machine) there's no way it'll fit.

I haven't been able to find a pair of X-dreams locally. Can anyone with Nomics and X-dreams comment on the handle size of the X-dreams? I know there's that little spacer at the bottom you can remove, but is this comparable to the largest setting on the Nomic handle?

Also re: pick weights - do the Petzl pick weights bolt onto the Cassin ice or mixte picks or are you drilling the picks?

Thanks!

Jason Todd · · Cody, WY · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 953

I removed the spacer on my X-Dreams to better fit size large hands with medium wt gloves (BD enforcer). Just throwing it out there for a point of reference, even though it doesn't answer your comparison question.

The Petzl weights will NOT fit the Mixte or ice picks without modification. I had climbed on Quarks with weights prior to the x-dreams. with the swing geometry and pick profile of the X-dreams, I haven't missed having weights.

Idaho Ian · · Pocatello, ID · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 5

I do not have any similar tools to compare too, but the X-Dreams fit my hand perfectly. Just a bit snug with a par of OR-Project gloves. I wear either a med-large glove at about 21cm around the knuckles. The opening on the X-Dream with spacer removed is around 10.2 cm with a single wrap of mastic tape on them (maybe 10.5 without).

Hope that helps. I haven't used mine much yet, but not for lack of trying. They have been stuck dry tooling in the garage until conditions get a bit colder here.

X-Dream grip size

Bill Kirby · · Baltimore Maryland · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

I wear large OR Lodestar gloves or XL BD Punishers if it's below 15 degrees. The X Dream handles work for me.

Pick weights bolt on the the Cassin picks. Use 3M rubber Mastic tape between the pick and the weight. The rubber will give bite and keep the weight in place.

jdejace · · New England · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 10

Thanks for your time guys, much obliged.

Linnaeus · · Idaho Selkirks · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 0

I have extra-large hands and wear exclusively XL gloves. Although my hands are thin and long, not the "paws" some people have. I use Nomics with pommel on the largest setting. If I climb/second in my heavyweight belay gloves (BD Guide gloves) they are tight to squeeze in, but with a light or medium weight glove they fit just fine. Again, these are XL size gloves. I don't think you'll have any issues with the size on Nomics if you have medium or larger hands, no matter what gloves you choose.

AlpineIce · · Upstate, NY · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 255
Idaho-Ian wrote:I do not have any similar tools to compare too, but the X-Dreams fit my hand perfectly. Just a bit snug with a par of OR-Project gloves.
How do you like the new Project Gloves? Are you happy with the fit? I'm curious how they compare to the Warrant Gloves. From what OR's website says, it appears they're stuffed with insulation, so I'm wondering if they are warmer than the Warrants? I know it probably hasn't been cold enough for you to wear them yet, but what are your initial thoughts? Thanks!
Idaho Ian · · Pocatello, ID · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 5

-Alpine Ice

I really enjoy the fit and quality on these. I suspect they will become a favorite for me. I would consider them a medium weight glove for insulation, but fit relatively slim overall. Sorry, but I have no reference for the Warrant gloves.Total guess looking at photos, they look identical in bulk.

Craghead · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 65
Bill Kirby wrote: Use 3M rubber Mastic tape between the pick and the weight. The rubber will give bite and keep the weight in place.
I have tried the Nomics with pick weights, X-Dream Mixte picks without weights, and X-dream Mixte picks with weights, and slightly prefer the Mixte picks with weights for pure ice. I took Bill's advice from a previous post and placed bicycle inner tube rubber between the pick weights and picks and then tightened down with a little contact cement between the rubber and pick weight. Works pretty well and no sliding of the weights. The 3M Mastic tape sounds like a good idea too.
Colin O'Brien · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 130

I have both Nomics and X-Dreams. The X-dream has a larger functional grip. I think the Nomic when opened wider loses some of the utility of the pommel, but that might just be my hand. I'm a small hand, but I still have the x-dream without the spacer - I just like the swing better.

For what it's worth, I find the X-dream to have a much more natural swing and to drive better in most ice. The only exception is with a blunt pick (which can happen in just one poor swing into rock), I've found a tendency to shatter ice on cold days. A lot of this is personal, but many who have nomics prefer my tools. The only thing I don't like is how quickly the steel on the mixte pick wears down. Be prepared to by a new pick once a season or more if you climb frequently. I also sharpen every outing, and will tune up during the day if I'm switching from mixed to ice. The nomics will blunt over time, but nothing like the X-dream.

Jesse Coonce · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2016 · Points: 5

I've only had the opportunity to run a few laps on steep ice on the x-dreams last year but I really enjoyed them, great tools. I did find my Ergo's easier to consistently get solid sticks with and I felt that was due to the pick weights(or lack thereof on the x-dreams). I wish I could try the x-dreams with the pick weights, I think that might be the ideal tool set up for me.......on second thought, maybe I'm glad I haven't had that opportunity, I can't afford another set of tools.

Theriault · · Quebec, Quebec · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 313
Jesse Coonce wrote:I've only had the opportunity to run a few laps on steep ice on the x-dreams last year but I really enjoyed them, great tools. I did find my Ergo's easier to consistently get solid sticks with and I felt that was due to the pick weights(or lack thereof on the x-dreams). I wish I could try the x-dreams with the pick weights, I think that might be the ideal tool set up for me.......on second thought, maybe I'm glad I haven't had that opportunity, I can't afford another set of tools.
petzl head weights can be installed on the mixed picks with no mods... also they have the Ice blades with hammer that gives you the perfect head weight
Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,110

1) for 'head weights', I've used a thick bolt and lock nuts that will fit through the hole in many pick heads...seems to work nicely, and also works as sort of a 'stopper' so my tool won't bury in too deep.
2) I have no idea why some tools are made with tiny tiny hand grips that do not adjust. Are they intended only for small handed females or children? I don't need my upper hand in snug on a tool. I want room for a variety of thin or thicker, warm gloves to fit and sit into the bottom of tool without feeling pinched.
Your hand is going to increase somewhat in size anyway when you grip hard on the tool, thus they even feel tighter. Seems that they should be at a minimum of 11+ cm. hand width space allowed. Nice to have adjustable hand grips, but of course that will drive up the cost of the tools too. Just my opinion towards the companies making 'mini' grips on tools. There are a lot of numbers that need to be given in tool ads. ( hand width, gap from tool tip back to widest part of the handle, vertical tool length, etc. Tough to determine as you just look at a tool in an ad.

climbing coastie · · Wasilla, AK · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 90

I'd highly reccomend waiting to try them out at the ice fest. I have a pair of the older generation Nomics and love them. My partner just got a set of X-dreams. I took a lap with them and thought they swung great, but when I got on vertical ice I didn't like them. Felt like I had to grip them to keep my hand from sliding out where as with my Nomic's I can have a nice relaxed hand when I hang off them.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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