November 16th public meeting for Jeffco Open Space!!!


Original Post
rockclimber50 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 30

JCOS will be hosting a public meeting on November 16, 2016 to discuss the updated Climbing Management Guidelines as well as updates from this year and what we hope to accomplish in the coming year. This meeting will take place at the Jefferson County Open Space office at 700 Jefferson County Parkway #100, Golden CO at 600pm. Join us for a short presentation and open discussion of all things climbing. We will have a survey available during and after the meeting to capture feedback. Please send comments or ideas to climbing@jeffco.us.

sherb · · Loveland, Ohio & Wheat Ridg... · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 60

Will there be food? just kidding. I am thinking about going just to see what they talk about.

Mark E Dixon · · Sprezzatura, Someday · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 549

We seriously need to address the issue of crag closures related to the Peak to Peak bike path.

Also, we should encourage programmatic approval of new route bolting, that is, approved developers should be allowed to add routes at established crags without going through any additional FHRC approvals.

Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 871

Are we going to talk about enforcing the noise ordinances. Many years ago I could enjoy a Sunday drive up Clear Creek Canyon to enjoy the wild life, scenery and the sounds of a beautiful mountain creek. But ever since those greedy capitalist climbing factories opened in Boulder, Denver and Golden the weekends are a total shit show. Hundreds of little cars that say zero emissions that have been fueled by electricity from dirty coal fired power plants zip up the canyon to send sick proj's that are way too hard for them in the first place. All I hear is TAKE! TAKE! ARE YOU WATCHING ME BRO???? Then you hear SHUT UP DUDE. YOURE ON A GRI GRI. YOU ALMOST MADE ME SPILL MY PBR. Now white spots from chalk are visible from the road and when I hike around the climbing areas I see shiny metal in the rock, soiled underware and sometimes human feces. This canyon has changed a lot in the last 20 years. Do these climbing factories and climbers give a rats ass about how it used to be before they got there?

Mark E Dixon · · Sprezzatura, Someday · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 549
Greg D wrote:Are we going to talk about enforcing the noise ordinances. Many years ago I could enjoy a Sunday drive up Clear Creek Canyon to enjoy the wild life, scenery and the sounds of a beautiful mountain creek. But ever since those greedy capitalist climbing factories opened in Boulder, Denver and Golden the weekends are a total shit show. Hundreds of little cars that say zero emissions that have been fueled by electricity from dirty coal fired power plants zip up the canyon to send sick proj's that are way too hard for them in the first place. All I hear is TAKE! TAKE! ARE YOU WATCHING ME BRO???? Then you hear SHUT UP DUDE. YOURE ON A GRI GRI. YOU ALMOST MADE ME SPILL MY PBR. Now white spots from chalk are visible from the road and when I hike around the climbing areas I see shiny metal in the rock, soiled underware and sometimes human feces. This canyon has changed a lot in the last 20 years. Do these climbing factories and climbers give a rats ass about how it used to be before they got there?
Very funny.

Actually, it's my impression there's less jake brake use recently. But may just be due to decreased truck traffic with the end of the summer construction season.

If Lin or Mark want to bring it up, I'll definitely back them up.

Are you pro-trash too, or just pro-noise?
Dan Cooksey · · Seattle, WA · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 365

Hahahahahahaha no Greg they don't. Move. You're literally in the most popular and unethical climbing environment in the US.

Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 871
Mark E Dixon wrote: Very funny. Are you pro-trash too, or just pro-noise?
Thanks for telling me how I think, albeit wrong. I'm not pro either. Just a bit more objective then some. Climber's shit stinks just as much as others despite the airy fairy pro enviro bs that many like to believe after they drive all over the country to scale a piece of rock.
Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 871
Dan Cooksey wrote:Hahahahahahaha no Greg they don't. Move. You're literally in the most popular and unethical climbing environment in the US.
Thank you for reinforcing my point.
Mark E Dixon · · Sprezzatura, Someday · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 549
Greg D wrote: Thanks for telling me how I think, albeit wrong. I'm not pro either. Just a bit more objective then some. Climber's shit stinks just as much as others despite the airy fairy pro enviro bs that many like to believe after they drive all over the country to scale a piece of rock.
So a couple of climbers are trying to make CCC a better place for climbers, bikers, fishermen and wildlife, but you are against this, as long as it lets you whine about Boulder and environmentalists.

Go to the meeting if it means that much to you. Present your side of the story.
Those who care about recreation and climbing in CCC are going.
Mark E Dixon · · Sprezzatura, Someday · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 549
Dan Cooksey wrote:You're literally in the most popular and unethical climbing environment in the US.
Unethical in what way?
Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 871
Mark E Dixon wrote: So a couple of climbers are trying to make CCC a better place for climbers, bikers, fishermen and wildlife, but you are against this, as long as it lets you whine about Boulder and environmentalists. .
Another brilliant show of intelligence telling someone else what they believe and in a way that doesn't even make sense.

You see, climbers come and trample vegetation, leave trash and feces and white chalk all over the mountain side not to mention shiny metal bolts everywhere. Yet a loud truck comes through and makes some noise for a few seconds. And then it's gone. No long-term impact. You see, I'm not pro anything per se. I'm just for intelligent, objective thinking. One that recognizes the permanent impact that climbers are having on the canyon. If that was not happening Jeffko would not feel the need to start to manage climbers. Hello?

But you talk about fishermen has a nice touch.
Mark E Dixon · · Sprezzatura, Someday · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 549
Greg D wrote: Another brilliant show of intelligence telling someone else what they believe and in a way that doesn't even make sense. You see, climbers come and trample vegetation, leave trash and feces and white chalk all over the mountain side not to mention shiny metal bolts everywhere. Yet a loud truck comes through and makes some noise for a few seconds. And then it's gone. No long-term impact. You see, I'm not pro anything per se. I'm just for intelligent, objective thinking. One that recognizes the permanent impact that climbers are having on the canyon. If that was not happening Jeffko would not feel the need to start to manage climbers. Hello? But you talk about fishermen has a nice touch.
Seems to me you made your opinions pretty clear in your initial hostile parody.

Every user group has impacts. Including climbers and fishermen - the only other group I see many of in CCC. Although when the bike path is finished, bikers will probably outnumber all of us.

We have an obligation to try to minimize our impacts on other groups. That doesn't mean we shouldn't ask other groups, such as truckers, to minimize theirs.

Your suggestion that because Jeffco has decided to regulate climbing means that there is a problem, or that climbing needs regulating, is naive. Outside of protecting raptors, current regulations will only increase impact on existing crags and drive more climbers to other venues outside Jefferson County.
Monty · · Golden, CO · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 3,099
Mark E Dixon wrote: Your suggestion that because Jeffco has decided to regulate climbing means that there is a problem, or that climbing needs regulating, is naive. Outside of protecting raptors, current regulations will only increase impact on existing crags and drive more climbers to other venues outside Jefferson County.
Not entering this conversation to ruffle any feathers, but I am curious if anyone feels as if the new regulations (aside from the raptor closures) have had any impact on their recreating in JCOS. If so, which regulation in particular?

I know that for me, nothing has changed at all. Even as a developer, the new CMP hasn't affected me, but then again, I threw in the towell on developing in CCC well before the new plan was adopted :). Regardless, I would have no problem submitting a short application for a new line. If anything it would make me think more deeply about if the route is really worth it or not. I'm not saying I don't support a programmatic approval process, just saying that the current application process is pretty easy.
Parker Wrozek · · Denver, CO · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 83

Are any more changes coming? What does JCOS think of the regulations so far?

Also since they are regulating the climbing areas are they looking at safety and rock stabilization. I guess there was a large rockfall at Canal Zone yesterday (the helmet will not help you kind) based on what I was told at the gym last night from someone who was there. Personally I don't think they should look at or ardress this but they put a sign out earlier this year (also at Canal Zone) so I am curious about their goals/objectives with this.

Monty wrote: Not entering this conversation to ruffle any feathers, but I am curious if anyone feels as if the new regulations (aside from the raptor closures) have had any impact on their recreating in JCOS. If so, which regulation in particular? I know that for me, nothing has changed at all.
I have noticed no difference. Even with the raptor closure.
Mark E Dixon · · Sprezzatura, Someday · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 549
Monty wrote: I threw in the towell on developing in CCC well before the new plan was adopted :). Regardless, I would have no problem submitting a short application for a new line. If anything it would make me think more deeply about if the route is really worth it or not. I'm not saying I don't support a programmatic approval process, just saying that the current application process is pretty easy.
2015 - 100 new routes
2016 <10

2016 - a legally bolted cliff chopped, for bike trail safety.
Which cliff is closed next when the trail gets further downstream? Highwire? Mission Wall? Wall of the 90s?

I don't put up new routes, but I sure love to climb them. So yes, I have felt an impact.

Glad to hear you support programmatic bolting. It would help.
Parker Wrozek · · Denver, CO · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 83

Which cliff was closed? I haven't climbed much in CCC this year.

Is the trail in Jeffco yet?

Mark E Dixon · · Sprezzatura, Someday · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 549
Parker Wrozek wrote:Which cliff was closed? I haven't climbed much in CCC this year. Is the trail in Jeffco yet?
Seemed like it was headed towards Stuffed Wolf last time I was that far up canyon.

I don't know the name of the closed crag.
It was one of the new ones from last year. I'd imagine Monty knows the details.
derek peavey · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 70

It was called the Banana Stand. From what Ive been told, He had to remove the hangers because it was a bighorn migrating area and climbers would disturb them. But the bike trail won't? Also heard that there will be no allowed development from Stuffed wolf all the way to the light on the other side of the river. As the trail gets further down canyon you will start to see established crags get closed because they are over the bike trail. That's the word on the street from what I've heard. Pretty sad if you ask me.

Monty · · Golden, CO · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 3,099
Mark E Dixon wrote: 2015 - 100 new routes 2016 <10
Not sure where those numbers are coming from or whether you are including routes in Clear Creek County or not. We have approved more than 10 routes in CCC this year, and who knows, maybe the lower rate of development is a hangover from the bolting frenzy of 2015 ;)
Mark E Dixon · · Sprezzatura, Someday · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 549
derek peavey wrote:It was called the Banana Stand. From what Ive been told, He had to remove the hangers because it was a bighorn migrating area and climbers would disturb them. But the bike trail won't? Also heard that there will be no allowed development from Stuffed wolf all the way to the light on the other side of the river. As the trail gets further down canyon you will start to see established crags get closed because they are over the bike trail. That's the word on the street from what I've heard. Pretty sad if you ask me.
I'd really like to get a straight answer on the bike trail issue.
Not sure the bighorn excuse holds water.

Monty, is there some place online to see the approved routes?
The Flatirons site is great in this regard.
Kevin Capps · · Golden, CO · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 530

The bighorn statement is true. Jeffco did not post about it since it seemed to be taken care of through the wall developer and Jeffco. That section of the canyon is now closed for sheep birthing. Totally separate from the bike trail, but I would imagine the bike trail would effect the sheep as well being only 100 feet or so from the wall. Not to mention the endless construction on the trail. No walls have been closed due to the bike trail yet that I know of, but I could foresee there being some serious concerns over the next 10 years. You never know though, there is a road going through Eldorado Canyon and nobody seems to mind.

Also, good point, there should be a place online that has the approved routes. I know I have bolted all of the routes that I have wanted to bolt in the past year, which has been about 6 in the Jeffco portion of Clear Creek (I typically don't post them on MP). Hopefully more people will send in applications and develop more in the canyon.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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