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Ledge ethics (on an obscure route)


Original Post
Casserly · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 10

Soooo I'm working a 5 pitch route that's at the edge of my abilities and am running into some issues regarding the hanging belays. How legit would a free ascent be if I perhaps left a porta-ledge hanging between the 2 crux pitches that happens to have a terrible hanging belay? I mean it's not like I'm pre- placing pro... What if just left my belay seat at the anchor? Is it different if I leave it for one night or 5? Does it matter if I deploy said ledge from top down or ground up?

BigB · · Red Rock, NV · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 340

-1/10

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Casserly wrote:Soooo I'm working a 5 pitch route that's at the edge of my abilities and am running into some issues regarding the hanging belays. How legit would a free ascent be if I perhaps left a porta-ledge hanging between the 2 crux pitches that happens to have a terrible hanging belay? I mean it's not like I'm pre- placing pro... What if just left my belay seat at the anchor? Is it different if I leave it for one night or 5? Does it matter if I deploy said ledge from top down or ground up?
Quoting for history what sure seems to be a troll post.
If it's a terrible hanging belay, isn't that kinda your fault?
Daniel Winder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 70

Free ascent is null if you hang on a belay, whether it be 5 days or 5 seconds.

Kent Richards · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 83
Daniel Winder wrote:Free ascent is null if you hang on a belay, whether it be 5 days or 5 seconds.
What about 1 second?
Kent Richards · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 83
Daniel Winder wrote:Free ascent is null if you hang on a belay, whether it be 5 days or 5 seconds.
Wait... So if I hang in my harness while belaying a follower, it's not a free ascent?
Daniel Winder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 70
Kent Richards wrote: Wait... So if I hang in my harness while belaying a follower, it's not a free ascent?
Did you weight the safety system? Then you know the answer.
John The Wolf · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 50
Daniel Winder wrote: Did you weight the safety system? Then you know the answer.
Oh no, this changes EVERYTHING!
Casserly · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 10

Not a troll post. You folks are saying that during free ascents that the leader can never weight the belay?????? He just leans into the wall while belaying the second up? WTF? I guess I'm lacking some multi pitch tips. As far as it being my fault about the shitty hanging belay, I wasn't polled when the route was equipped and those 3 1/2" bolts were placed in that location. They are in the only logical spot between two pitches that traverse a good bit otherwise it'd be one long pitch. Isn't there some route in NH where a permanent ledge was built?

Barrett Pauer · · Brevard, NC · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 775

Casserly, Just haul up the ledge and rest up before the redpoint of each pitch. No idea what these other people are talking about...

Gavin W · · Surrey, BC · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 183

By the logic in this thread, the Dawn Wall is still available for the first free ascent. Sweet, I'll go snag that.

steverett · · San Diego, CA · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 105

Tommy & Kevin had portaledges on the FFA of the Dawn Wall. They'll be disappointed to know Daniel Winder doesn't consider it a valid free ascent.

Casserly, as long as it doesn't interfere w/other climbers (you say it's an obscure route) then I don't see the problem.

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Casserly wrote:You folks are saying that during free ascents that the leader can never weight the belay??????
Can't speak for anyone else, but that's just plain BS. Look at all the aid routes that have been freed on El Cap, loaded with hanging belays.

The only thing I can see a rating difference between doing something in two pitches with a hanging belay vs one long pitch (assuming standard rope lengths).

Example: a route with anchors at 35m, then someone else adds a 25m extension to a new anchor at 60m. The full 60m route may be significantly harder than doing it as a two pitch route with a hanging belay. This is basically what happened with Sharma's Biographie (aka Realization) in Ceuse. It is composed of a first 8c+ section, freed by Arnaud Petit in 1996 and repeated by Sharma and Sylvain Millet, that leads to a chain at half-height. Leaving a further 20m of intense climbing, graded 8b+ in its own right with a 7c boulder crux and no rest whatsoever. The full route is graded 9a+ (15a).
BigB · · Red Rock, NV · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 340

You guys are so easy... ta fug wit

BigFeet · · Texas · Joined May 2014 · Points: 380

The Winder got taken out of the sails of this thread quickly.

I thought it was going to give us some fun talk to last a good distance...

ah, the joke is on me.

In all seriousness, if you untie and free-solo the next pitch, after leaving the ledge, are any points regained?

Climbing is for you! Who cares your style, and what others think... unless you are in front of someone who does. Ponder?

Kent Richards · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 83

I'll go out on a limb and guess that Winder is trolling. My replies to him were meant to play along with the joking.

I'll go out on another limb and guess that Lynn Hill hung at a belay on the world-acknowledged FFA of The Nose.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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