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Petzl Caritool - Large or Small


Original Post
John Vanek · · Gardnerville, NV · Joined May 2013 · Points: 0

I'm curious if anyone has opinions on the two sizes of Caritool Petzl makes?

I believe the Petzl small (regular?) is the same size as the BD.

JV

Caleb Mallory · · Seattle, Wa · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 425

I have both and honestly I hardly use the larger one. It does serve nicely for racking more screws and as a tool/axe holder, and its actually not as ridiculously large as I had first perceived from pictures online. Have you seen this yet? Looking forward to trying it out: petzl.com/US/en/Sport/New/C…

Edit: This may help -

Comparison
George W · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2015 · Points: 8

Yes, the small one is closer in size to the BD one. Mind you the Petzl one has a thicker spine so it doesn't fit well in BD harness' (at least that's the case in the Couloir harness I own).

John Vanek · · Gardnerville, NV · Joined May 2013 · Points: 0

Thanks for the quick replies, guys.

I didn't think about the fit with the harness; good point. But I use a Petzl harness anyway.

JV

Bill Kirby · · Baltimore Maryland · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

Me likey the new Caritool Evo!

I could see installing one on the back of your harness for long screws to be used at the belays.

Harry Richardson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 125

Observation #1 Was leading an ice route with about 6 screws loaded into Caritool Evo and went to unclip a screw....due to my body position, the number of screws on the Caritoo Evo and who knows what else, the gate of the Caritool Evo came unclipped on one side and was dangling open...gently worked it back into place without spilling contents...Observation #2 Was following an ice route and cleaning the pro...gently tapped the top of the ice screw on top of the new Caritool Evo to see if it would clear out the ice core and the wire gate came unclipped from one side of the nylon frame...reached down and easily pulled the other side out...put the wire gate in pocket and continued racking screws on the other side of harness on the other Caritool Evo minus the tapping to clear the core...went home and reinstalled the wire gate and added a few wraps of electrical tape to help keep the wire gate under a bit more tension and hopefully stay put...so far, so good...racked and un-racked screws last session with no problems

Dan Africk · · Brooklyn, New York · Joined May 2014 · Points: 285
Harry Richardson wrote:

Observation #1 Was leading an ice route with about 6 screws loaded into Caritool Evo and went to unclip a screw....due to my body position, the number of screws on the Caritoo Evo and who knows what else, the gate of the Caritool Evo came unclipped on one side and was dangling open...gently worked it back into place without spilling contents...Observation #2 Was following an ice route and cleaning the pro...gently tapped the top of the ice screw on top of the new Caritool Evo to see if it would clear out the ice core and the wire gate came unclipped from one side of the nylon frame...reached down and easily pulled the other side out...put the wire gate in pocket and continued racking screws on the other side of harness on the other Caritool Evo minus the tapping to clear the core...went home and reinstalled the wire gate and added a few wraps of electrical tape to help keep the wire gate under a bit more tension and hopefully stay put...so far, so good...racked and un-racked screws last session with no problems

I have a brand new Caritool Evo, and after reading your comment took a look at how the wire gate is attached.. and it isn't. Gently pulling sideways on the base of the gate pops out the wire remarkably easily, there's nothing but spring tension holding it in. I would much prefer the wires went all the way through the plastic and had the ends flared, like on wiregate carabiners, but perhaps having the holes all the way through would weaken the plastic too much. 

I don't know if this would ever be an issue in normal use, but I will be sure to avoid tapping the Caritool or messing with that gate in any way. If it ever comes loose in the field I will tape it as well, but for now I'll see how it holds up on it's own. Thanks for letting us know!

JasonSH · · unknown · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 90
Harry Richardson wrote:

Observation #1 Was leading an ice route with about 6 screws loaded into Caritool Evo and went to unclip a screw....due to my body position, the number of screws on the Caritoo Evo and who knows what else, the gate of the Caritool Evo came unclipped on one side and was dangling open...gently worked it back into place without spilling contents...Observation #2 Was following an ice route and cleaning the pro...gently tapped the top of the ice screw on top of the new Caritool Evo to see if it would clear out the ice core and the wire gate came unclipped from one side of the nylon frame...reached down and easily pulled the other side out...put the wire gate in pocket and continued racking screws on the other side of harness on the other Caritool Evo minus the tapping to clear the core...went home and reinstalled the wire gate and added a few wraps of electrical tape to help keep the wire gate under a bit more tension and hopefully stay put...so far, so good...racked and un-racked screws last session with no problems

Not just the evo, had the wire gate on my regular evo come out from under the nylon and hang open for until i realized it was open and quickly popped it back. Nothing lost but not thrilled by the mishap. 

Dylan Pike · · SLC, UT · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 35

My buddy has two petzl clippers. One is missing the gate and the other has a gate that pops off frequently.

Harry Richardson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 125

An email that I sent to Petzl Customer Service this morning:


To All-

I have recently purchased 2 Caritool Evo's and have had the gate come unhinged from the frame 2 times, once while seconding/cleaning a route and another time whilst leading.

The gate is held in position by the spring tension of the wire itself and is not pinned through the frame to prevent accidental loss of the wire gate.

Please be advised of this situation and consider an alternate method of securing the gate to the frame.

$14.95 Caritool Evo vs. $400.00 of flying/dropped/lost ice screws while leading steep or mixed ice = a priceless recipe for disaster.

In the mean time I have placed several wraps of electrical tape on the wire gate to create more tension to stop the accidental loss of the gate. The results have been positive, with no partially hanging or totally lost wire gate/screws.

Thank you for your attention to this matter. Myself and others look forward to your response.

Sincerely,

Richard Harrison

Dan Allard · · West Chester, PA · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 793

No experience with the new larger one. Everyone I know who's used the smaller plastic type like Black Diamond's, has lost $omething off of them.. 

These "ice clippers" are all just plastic carabiners right? A plastic non-rated carabiner that is flimsy, costs more (15$ Evo vs half that $ for a metal biner), and as Richard mentions, can be VERY costly if you loose your tools or dump a rack of screws off them when they fail..

So maybe one of you can enlighten me on the appeal or why this concept of a seemingly inferior version of something that we all already have dozens of on our rack, even exists as a product? What am I missing?  It can't be weight - biners are light (the Omega Pac Five-O wiregates I use are 49g. The Caritool Evo is 50g).

Personally I use a regular aluminum wiregate biner with the largest basket and biggest gate opening I can find and thread it through the clipper slots on my harness the same way as these plastic clippers. I've got one on each side. It's durable and reliable because it doesn't stretch/flex/bend/break, and if you're in a pinch you've got an extra full strength biner on you at all times.

Jesse Coonce · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2016 · Points: 5
Dan Allard wrote:

No experience with the new larger one. Everyone I know who's used the smaller plastic type like Black Diamond's, has lost $omething off of them.. 

These "ice clippers" are all just plastic carabiners right? A plastic non-rated carabiner that is flimsy, costs more (15$ Evo vs half that $ for a metal biner), and as Richard mentions, can be VERY costly if you loose your tools or dump a rack of screws off them when they fail..

So maybe one of you can enlighten me on the appeal or why this concept of a seemingly inferior version of something that we all already have dozens of on our rack, even exists as a product? What am I missing?  It can't be weight - biners are light (the Omega Pac Five-O wiregates I use are 49g. The Caritool Evo is 50g).

Personally I use a regular aluminum wiregate biner with the largest basket and biggest gate opening I can find and thread it through the clipper slots on my harness the same way as these plastic clippers. I've got one on each side. It's durable and reliable because it doesn't stretch/flex/bend/break, and if you're in a pinch you've got an extra full strength biner on you at all times.

They are nice because they don't flop around near as much as a biner does when racking/unracking screws, even if the biner is put in your ice clipper slot on your harness.  Otherwise, everything about a real aluminum biner is better as you pointed out.  I am actually thinking about switching to biners for screw racking as well, just trying to find the best way to keep them snugly in place in the harness clipper slot.

Luc-514 · · Montreal, Quebec · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 9,004

Get the small ones, the large one will not hold Black Diamond screws or PETZL ice tools!

Also due to the thicker size it won't fit in some carry tool slots (doesn't fit in my Arc'terix harness)

Anyone wants to buy 2 large carry-tools? I'm not gonna use them.

Harry Richardson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 125

Petzl Guy Says:

Hi Richard,

Thanks for your mail. Sorry to hear about the trouble with your Caritool Evo. All Petzl products carry a three year warranty against manufacturing defects. If your product is not repairable and falls under warranty, Petzl will replace it for you.

If you would like to send in your product for warranty evaluation, please send us the following information:

  • Phone number 
  • Return shipping address 

Once we receive the above information, we will send you a RA (return authorization) number as well as a shipping address. Please let us know if you have any other questions or for more information, please visit the support page on our website.

Best,

Bryan Cox

Petzl America | After Sales and Service Department 

801.926.1541

Harry Richardson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 125

I Reply:

Bryan-

Thank you for your prompt response.

I am guessing that you don't use the Caritool Evo so you don't grasp the idea that what I am describing is a design flaw...no matter how many warrantied Caritool Evo's you send me, the inherent design flaw of the gate not being pinned into the retaining holes in the frame will allow the gate to keep coming undone...this information needs to be presented to the design/engineering department and specifically to those who helped design the Caritool Evo...will you please supply me with your supervisor or manager's contact info so that I may further explain this challenge? 

Thanks again for your help.

Richard Harrison

Sunny-D · · SLC, Utah · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 700

The Grivel Carryabiner is pretty cool I have been using it some this year and like it. It is a full strength biner made for carrying ice screws and tools. Honestly though my favorite is the OP five-O wire gate. It works really well as a screw and tool carrier. It has a nice big basket and is a wire gate.  I’ve tried a few different biners for this purpose and come back to the five-O.  If you get regular biners and practice (or just use them) they work great for the intended purpose. 

Dallen 

Dan Africk · · Brooklyn, New York · Joined May 2014 · Points: 285
Dan Allard wrote:

...So maybe one of you can enlighten me on the appeal or why this concept of a seemingly inferior version of something that we all already have dozens of on our rack, even exists as a product? What am I missing?  It can't be weight - biners are light (the Omega Pac Five-O wiregates I use are 49g. The Caritool Evo is 50g).

Personally I use a regular aluminum wiregate biner with the largest basket and biggest gate opening I can find and thread it through the clipper slots on my harness the same way as these plastic clippers. I've got one on each side. It's durable and reliable because it doesn't stretch/flex/bend/break, and if you're in a pinch you've got an extra full strength biner on you at all times.

In addition to Jesse's point about the plastice ice clippers not moving around, I think the size and shape of the large Caritool is more ideal than most carabiners, I don't think I've seen any wiregate or even non-locking solid gate that is nearly as large or with such a big gate opening as the large Caritool (unlike the small caritool or BD Ice clipper, which is not much bigger than some wiregates). 

The most unique feature seems to be the flat, ridged top portion of the ice clipper, which allow you to flip one or more ice screws onto this 'shelf', to get them out of the way and access a different sized screw behind them. With a carabiner you'd have to remove and hold the ice screws, possibly with one hand, or clip them somewhere else, and all that involves more effort and greater risk of dropping something or getting pumped out. Of course if you have multiple biners/clips and only keep one size per clip, this wouldn't be an issue.

I'll admit I'm a beginner ice climber and have only followed or top-roped so far, but I have played around with this 'shelf' feature and it seems to work as intended, and is something I think I would find very useful when leading.

Dan Africk · · Brooklyn, New York · Joined May 2014 · Points: 285

These seem pretty nice, but at $45 for the wiregate version, certainly not a cheap solution. I don't love the screw attachment mechanism, I'd prefer a method that can doesn't require tools to add or remove this from the harness, and I also don't like depending on a small screw that could easily be dropped and lost. But money aside this seems like the nicest option out there. And considering that the large Petzl caritool runs about $19 (oddly, more than the Evo), it starts to seem more reasonable by comparison: http://dmmclimbing.com/products/vault/

Also apparently these are not compatible with BD Ice screws without modification- the entryway to the shelf is too large and needs to be filed down (https://climbinggearreviewsuk.wordpress.com/2017/03/22/dmm-vault-review/). Even if I was willing to drop $45 a piece for these, I don't exactly like the idea of taking a file to brand new expensive gear.. Hopefully they'll change there design soon to make a smaller shelf entry, it seems crazy to me to sell such an expensive ice clipper and have it not be compatible with one of the most popular brands of ice screw.

Dan Africk · · Brooklyn, New York · Joined May 2014 · Points: 285
Luc-514 wrote:

Get the small ones, the large one will not hold Black Diamond screws or PETZL ice tools!

Also due to the thicker size it won't fit in some carry tool slots (doesn't fit in my Arc'terix harness)

Anyone wants to buy 2 large carry-tools? I'm not gonna use them.

Can you elaborate on how it doesn't fit the ice screws and tools? I used the Caritool Evo to carry a bunch of BD Ice screws without issue recently, but it's a shaped differently, and also those may have been an older design of BD screws. I wanted to get the large Caritools instead but couldn't find them in time, and was planning to buy one or two eventually.

Martin le Roux · · Superior, CO · Joined Jul 2003 · Points: 237
Luc-514 wrote:

Also due to the thicker size [the large Caritool] won't fit in some carry tool slots (doesn't fit in my Arc'terix harness)

Isn't the idea that you'd attach it to your harness using the hinged wire clip that runs along the spine? The wire clip goes on the inside of the harness waistbelt and the plastic spine goes on the outside. That way you can use it even if your harness doesn't have a tool slot. I've used it that way and it seems to work fine.

.

Luc-514 · · Montreal, Quebec · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 9,004

The P42L doesn't have the metal spine.

https://m.petzl.com/US/en/Professional/Harnesses/CARITOOL

The thickness is such that the BD screws don't fit  nor the Petzl ice tools.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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