Loctite on 5-Piece


Original Post
billnye · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 0

Here's a question I haven't been able to get answered: Can one apply Loctite or other thread locker to the cone of a 5-piece Rawl/Powers/Legacy-type bolt? Even installed with a torque wrench, these bolts seem to work their way loose after several seasons of freeze/thaw.

Erik Kloeker · · Cincinnati, Ohio · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 0

No. Please do not do this. Tighten as needed. Save the loctite for stud bolt nuts.

Brian in SLC · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Oct 2003 · Points: 12,639
billnye wrote:Here's a question I haven't been able to get answered: Can one apply Loctite or other thread locker to the cone of a 5-piece Rawl/Powers/Legacy-type bolt? Even installed with a torque wrench, these bolts seem to work their way loose after several seasons of freeze/thaw.
Of course you could apply Loctite...but...why would you?

The beauty of the 5-piece design is that it tightens when you draw up the cone into the sleeve. If you glue the cone to the threads, it won't move, and, won't tighten. It'll be a forever spinner.

You get the same effect when you install a bolt into a hole that's too small. The cone gets smashed and sticks to the threads and won't tighten.

Surface prep at the bolt/hanger surface is important to keep the bolt and hanger from moving. That'd be a better solution than fixing the cone.

Some rock types don't like bolts. Next solution would be a glue-in?

Good luck.
billnye · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 0

Brain, I wonder if you misunderstand the question. The idea would be that the Loctite would not set up until after the bolt has been appropriately torqued. Also, releasable loctite would mean that the bolt could be loosened/tightened with hand tools later. In other applications, Loctite often makes a bolt or nut easier to remove after an extended period of time because the threadlocker keeps corrosion at bay.

Thanks

t.farrell · · New York, NY · Joined Aug 2016 · Points: 0

I don't bolt routes so take what I have to contribute with a grain of salt. But, I have installed concrete anchors before.

The idea behind most lock washers is that axial pressure on a nut should keep it in place. The cone on a 5 piece, to my understanding, functions as a tapered nut being pulled into an expansion wedge and further into an expansion sleeve. I would assume that the expanding parts would keep some amount of axial pressure on the cone (and therefore shouldn't move). Not saying that it can't wiggle free though especially with temp. changes. Assuming it's set correctly, it could be tightened with the same amount of effort as applying loctite.

I'd think the hole probably wasn't clean or something else like that. If it's every single bolt that's loose, I'd think it's an issue with the bolt or the installation.

billnye · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 0

So does anyone have a definitive "don't, because..." or "do, because..." answer to this one?

Thanks!

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 1,865

Don't... because movement of the cone into the sleeve is how these bolts work.

Brian in SLC · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Oct 2003 · Points: 12,639

Macht nichts.

Gregger Man · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 576

If you put Loctite on the threads I think you will not be able to un-screw the bolt later - the cone starts rotating with the bolt and no amount of funking gives enough purchase to keep it still while you try to torque the bolt head. I'd rather see a thin film of beeswax on the threads to ward off rust than Loctite.

20 kN · · Hawaii · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,128
billnye wrote:So does anyone have a definitive "don't, because..." or "do, because..." answer to this one? Thanks!
Dont because it will cause a spinner (bolt, not hanger). If the cone is fused to the machine bolt, turning the head of the machine bolt will only serve to spin the cone and then you're screwed. I've had to deal with that several times and it's extremely difficult to remove the bolt if the cone spins freely. Often you have to cut it off with an angle grinder at that point. No bolt lasts forever, even if the bolt is stainless steel, and so at some point that 5-piece is going to need to come out. When that time comes the person doing the work is going to lose their shit if all the bolts at the crag have Loctite on them.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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