Black Totem Cam .5 vs. yellow Bd x4 .2

According to thealpinestart (8/23 post), the slightly redesigned aliens will be distributed by Five Ten

Erik Sloan wrote:Yo Gang! I realize that the most depressing thing right now, cam wise, is the lack of availability of the best cams, Totems. Fixe sent me some of the Revo Aliens a couple months ago, and they are incredible - I think slightly better than the Totem Basics, because of a smaller cam stop(the ball at the end of the cam) size, but def not as good as the Black Totem. I thought that they were widely available today, but it doesn't look like it. Ultimately I think the best solution is for RockTech, the company that owns Aliens in Spain to buy Totem....until that happens, hopefully one of them will become widely available - definitely do not by the Evo Lite Aliens!

Hi Erik -- That's not what most people mean when they say cam stop, I think you're talking about the trigger wire termination. Anyway, I'm just wondering in which situations having the ball there affects functionality or placement quality.

Thanks.

-Mark

Erik Sloan wrote: Ultimately I think the best solution is for RockTech, the company that owns Aliens in Spain to buy Totem....

I think nearly nearly everyone will agree with me when I say that's a terrible idea.

Totem has been a stand up company from day one and done nothing but impress with its QC, customer service and even online presence to address questions etc. TechRock / Fixe has proven otherwise on many occasions.

The fact that Totems are slightly harder to find (and really only in Black and Orange) is perfectly fine with me and likely most other people. I live in a decidedly non-climbing city and have managed to acquire a double set, black to orange without too much difficulty. Lack of instant gratification is no reason to risk all that makes Totem so desirable. Cruise the smaller climbing shops online such as MtnGear, Rock and Snow etc and you'll have better luck vs the big retailers.

I like the totems paired with end x4 because the sizing is just a little different . I feel like between the two I have a great fit for every spot

Mrkb3 wrote: Hi Erik -- That's not what most people mean when they say cam stop, I think you're talking about the trigger wire termination. Anyway, I'm just wondering in which situations having the ball there affects functionality or placement quality. Thanks. -Mark

He's talking about the axle head / cable termination width. (yes, not the cam stop). The Alien "ball head" is slightly thinner than a Totem Basic. Maybe 2mm? I personally don't think that makes a difference and the Totem Basic seems to have more metal in the head "tube" as well giving me more confidence in durability vs EVO. That said, I've had zero issues with my EVOs in their limited use. Time will tell.

Totem wins in my mind still however.

Yeah Mark - I was talking about the axel head/cable termination width. In a few cases I haven't been able to get the blue Totem Basic and Blue/Green Basic cam into a placement because that ball was too big, but obviously that's pretty minor, but enough for me that I would just rather take the Aliens in the smaller sizes.

Like I said, I'm very disappointed with how RockTech handled the Evo Aliens failures - that was the classic 'let's rush our product to market' bs. Addidas bought the US distribution rights to Fixe/Roca and some other brands, so 5.10 is just the US distributor (and there's been a lot of shaking up at 5.10 lately, so who knows what's up).

Totem is not some perfect company, though obviously I wish them well and bow down to their innovative feet (I gave them a free, $1500 ad across from the Table of Contents in the new Rock Climbing Yosemite Valley book). The Totem patent was filed in 2002, they were reintroduced into the US market in 2011 or 2012, and in 2016 with literally every trad climber I meet, from any country, eager to buy their products, which, mind you, do not change colors from year to year like cars or clothes, Totem cams are still hard to find. That is super frustrating. I am so grateful for the innovation that Totem represents, and have tried to be as helpful/supportive as possible - hopefully they will figure out their production issues soon.

Don Ferris wrote:Bent gate in golden has a bunch of them.

I was there last Wednesday and they had several oranges, plenty of blue-red, but no blacks...

Can i just quickly go semi off topic and ask, are the orange and red totems really worth getting? My feeling is that i would be better off with a bread and butter cam like a wild country or dmm cam, mainly just because they just seem more rugged.

Over on UKClimbing the engineering involved with the WC Friends remodel to double axle noted that, in general, single axles are actually more robust, especially down in the .5 range where there's not a lot of metal in the lobes. In the #2 size it probably doesn't matter all that much.

Re he Totem Orange I suspect it's area dependent. Areas with deep spitters or really good cracks the head width in that size maters not. However, in places where you have bottoming or flared cracks I bet the narrow head width could help.

that guy named seb wrote:Can i just quickly go semi off topic and ask, are the orange and red totems really worth getting? My feeling is that i would be better off with a bread and butter cam like a wild country or dmm cam, mainly just because they just seem more rugged.

No but in my head.. yes! I haven't used the orange but I carry my red Totem over my red Wild Country or #1 BD. I feel the placements are more bomber when it's a Totem.

Aside from black and to a lesser degree orange, Totems are readily found online at at least 3 retailers right now. I could literally buy 45 purple size Totems if I wanted.

Rock and Snow
Bent Gate
Mountain Gear
Backcountry Gear

Less stock
Backcountry
CampSaver

The black was their most recent introduction and often requested so it's no surprise they'd be harder to keep in stock. They'll catch up.

Bill Kirby wrote: No but in my head.. yes! I haven't used the orange but I carry my red Totem over my red Wild Country or #1 BD. I feel the placements are more bomber when it's a Totem.

I can sorta see me getting the red but the orange just seems pointless.

that guy named seb wrote:Can i just quickly go semi off topic and ask, are the orange and red totems really worth getting? My feeling is that i would be better off with a bread and butter cam like a wild country or dmm cam, mainly just because they just seem more rugged.

I wouldn't give up my red, but I'm on the fence about orange. Handling one it seemed... not floppy exactly, but not smooth and tight like the smaller ones. Probably not worth the expense versus another gold C4 / Dragon / New Friend.

The larger Totems are quite a bit more narrow than the BD, DMM or WC and work better in pockets and flares. For straight up regular cracks it doesn't matter too much and I tend to use my BD 1 and 2 cams and save my Totems for weird placements.

I've used the orange totem, #2 C4, Yellow dragon. I love totems but the orange is kind of underwhelming. Stick with the C4s, dragons, or new friends in that size.

Yeah, I would not sell my camalots or dragons to buy the orange Totem. But if you were looking for a piece in that size I would buy the Totem - because if there is only one placement that is flaring or shallow, and you get the amazing placement because of the Totem's unique qualities, you would be so happy. But yeah that is pretty rare in the gold camalot size - for the placement to be flaring or shallow.

good to hear that the Totems are coming into stock.

Mrkb3 wrote: Where did you get this? Has it been officially announced? Even if the features look good, the EVO lite saga was just too much. I would wait a while, and look for good field reports before I buy anything FIXE. Even with improved features, hard to imagine the quality approaching Basics.

Yeah, this^^^

I mailed one in under their (Fixe) warranty process in April or early May....

Crickets.

Nada.

Followed up with an email a month ago to Kevin Daniels.

Crickets.

Zip.

Zilch.

I can't see giving them commerce again.

Hey Colonel -

That's unacceptable if you still haven't gotten an Evo Alien issue resolved. I thought that RockTech initially denied that the units came apart, but then later admitted it, and offered refunds or exchanges for the older, original style.

Can we get Kevin Daniels or anyone from RockTech on this thread? Does anyone have contact with who is handling things now with the Adidas north america distribution take over?

Ultimately, it's a shame that climber's lose because Totem has so far refused to license their technology to any other cam manufacturers. Their patent was filed in 2002, so will be up in 2022, so not forever. Dave Waggoner, inventor of the Alien cam and owner of CCH the maker of Aliens until his death (Dave's wife sold the company to Fixe), also refused to license his 'internal spring' technology, making a whole generation of climbers suffer through using inferior cams (C3s, Mastercams, Splitter cams, etc.).

Erik Sloan wrote:Hey Colonel - That's unacceptable if you still haven't gotten an Evo Alien issue resolved.

My issue was a bit of user error more than anything, but the cam was fix(get it?)able. Whether they would repair it or not, need a bit of moolah from me to expedite, or whatever, it is the never hearing anything back about it part that sucks. I could have just kept the cam as a goddamn Christmas ornament. Instead, it disappeared into a black hole. That, to me, speaks a lot more about a company and the folks running it than anything else.

Oh well. FYI I just had the rug yanked out from under my black totem order from Mountain Gear. Spoke to someone in person when they showed 3 in stock and got a confirmation of "yes you got one" but it is now showing up as on backorder. I noticed I never got a shipping notice email and had to log back in to their site to discover this then called to confirm. Here's hoping the rest of you who put an order in had better luck but I recommend you check your order status. Oh well, I'm still sick and the weather sucks so I'll be sitting on my hands for a while anyway.

I did get to climb with a friend who was lucky enough to score a black totem and it didn't disappoint - took it up a pitch and got a rock solid placement somewhere I'd never been able to before. That said, there are some places where Totems don't go; in particular I've noticed that the elongated oval shape of the lobes as you cam it tighter can be problematic in shallower cracks. The sweet spot of contact gets pushed too far to the outside and I have to use my single axle/rounder cams (Metolius or Aliens) instead. I have friends who like WC friends for this reason in certain placements over BD C4s.

And one other aside, I just got my reslung cleaned master cams and a few TCUs back from Metolius and have got to say they do a great job for the money. They are like the Toyota Corolla of cams... not sexy but dependable and get the job done.