Twisted axe heads


Original Post
Andrew Boyd · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 5

I'm not sure how else to describe the issue, other than the heads of two new Viper tools are off the centerline of the handle by 5-15°. One is worse than the other, but both in the same direction. I noticed just after I started taking some metal off one of the picks. I visited my local big box store, which didn't have any vipers, but the Fusions and Cobras they did have didn't exhibit this issue - the picks were true with the handle.

off-center axe head

Any of you seen something like this before? Is this something BD does purposely, assuming you use one hammer, one adze, and always in the same hand, to facilitate your swing, or something?

Also, please ignore the "undulating" floor - the house is 150 years old..

CornCob · · Sandy, UT · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 20

I just checked my Quarks, and they do not appear to be off-set at all. If the Fusions, Cobras, and Quarks (just for some brand diversity) are all strait on, my guess is something is tweaked with your Vipers.

Have you tried contacting BD directly for their feedback? They may be interested in this from a QC standpoint.

Allen Sanderson · · Oootah · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,135

IMHO there is a mfg defect. If as you say these are new I would return them for a replacement.

Andrew Boyd · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 5

Thanks for the expedient replies. I didn't want to reach out to BD for a non-issue. I think I may be contacting their customer service soon. I'll update with any resolution.

jon jugenheimer · · Madison · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 2,054

Contact the BD warranty dept from the website and they will set you straight! Those tools should not be off center like that.

Todd Anderson · · Seattle, WA · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 145

My Cassin X-All Mountains have the same issue, although I think they are twisted in opposite directions. That said, I got them off this forum, and maybe the previous owner was climbing M-hard in them or something....

Andrew Boyd · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 5

I had a quick phone conversation with the BD warranty department. This was a known manufacturing issue, which, it sounds like, has been resolved. I was advised to submit a warranty claim, and have done so. That's all I have for now.

Stagg54 Taggart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 10
CornCob wrote:I just checked my Quarks, and they do not appear to be off-set at all. If the Fusions, Cobras, and Quarks (just for some brand diversity) are all strait on, my guess is something is tweaked with your Vipers. Have you tried contacting BD directly for their feedback? They may be interested in this from a QC standpoint.
I can hardly imagine that being intentional, otherwise you would have left hand and right hand tools... I haven't seen any marked left and right. Maybe there are some out there somewhere? With the new* (I guess I'm dating myself here) leashless tools I would think you would want them to be ambidexterous, otherwise switching hands would cause problems.
Brett Merlin · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 20
Todd Anderson wrote:My Cassin X-All Mountains have the same issue, although I think they are twisted in opposite directions. That said, I got them off this forum, and maybe the previous owner was climbing M-hard in them or something....
Hey Todd, be sure to fill out a warranty claim for these tools. CAMP will get them replaced for you if they have bent shafts.

http://www.camp-usa.com/warranty-return/
Todd Anderson · · Seattle, WA · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 145
Brett Merlin wrote: Hey Todd, be sure to fill out a warranty claim for these tools. CAMP will get them replaced for you if they have bent shafts. camp-usa.com/warranty-return/
I will as soon as the Camp USA website loads!

And I don't think the shafts are out of alignment; rather, the heads that fit into the shafts (i.e. that connect the shafts to the picks) are misaligned in the shafts. I'll post photos here when I get home.
t.farrell · · New York, NY · Joined Aug 2016 · Points: 60

Email from Camp about All Mountains:

"Bottom line, this axe is designed for Technical Ice and Alpine Climbing. You’re not going to break the shaft, or the pick, on any ice or mixed terrain. If you do manage to break a component, rest assured, we will be happy to take that in for inspection and replace the part or item for you.
Thanks for reaching out. Let me know if you have any additional questions.

Happy Climbing,
Jonathon
Customer Service
--
CAMP USA Inc.
16050 Table Mountain Parkway #600
Golden, CO 80403
(303) 465-9429 x2"

They also explained about about flex testing the pick head (where the All Mountain pick failed to qualify for a T rating) but customer service, to me anyway, seems to be saying you shouldn't be able to damage it.

Todd Anderson · · Seattle, WA · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 145
t.farrell wrote:Email from Camp about All Mountains: "Bottom line, this axe is designed for Technical Ice and Alpine Climbing. You’re not going to break the shaft, or the pick, on any ice or mixed terrain. If you do manage to break a component, rest assured, we will be happy to take that in for inspection and replace the part or item for you...They also explained about about flex testing the pick head (where the All Mountain pick failed to qualify for a T rating) but customer service, to me anyway, seems to be saying you shouldn't be able to damage it.
Thanks for contacting them. Still not sure what the implications of this email are, though; either I didn't break my tools (and it was a manufacturing defect and should be dealt with), or I didn't break my tools (and they're fine, so there's no reason to deal with the issue), or I did break my tools (and I should rest assured that they will deal with the issue), or I did break my tools (but I'm not the original owner so the warranty is void).

The issue really looks like a manufacturing defect rather than damage to me, but I'll get some photos up and you guys (and CAMP/Cassin) can see what you think.
Todd Anderson · · Seattle, WA · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 145

Okay, I looked at my tools and got some photos. The head/shaft junction on one tool looks a bit off, which I think is causing the misalignment in that tool. The other tool seems fine. You definitely notice the misalignment looking at the tool during the swing, but I'm not sure if it affects performance.

tool head/shaft junction comparison; note gap in junction on right tool

head twist

head twist

Yes, my landlord has a strange garden.

Todd Anderson · · Seattle, WA · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 145

Update from CAMP USA:

We did have a small batch that made it out with a bad alignment and most have resurfaced back to us for replacements by now, so we are happy to take care of you here with a replacement tool.

Awesome customer service!

Andrew Boyd · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 5

CAMP has always taken care of me quickly. I'm still waiting to hear back from BD on my warranty claim.

mario molina · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 0

years ago Grivel made tools with tilted heads, I believe the idea was for the tools to cam once placed.
Good to hear that BD is dealing with the issue, kind of surprised they didn't catch it initially.
Over the years CAMP has had QC issues, this is part of the reason Chouinard started making their own tools, as well as Lowe Alpine.

Michael Schneider · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 735

Cool, one season ice tools!

You're

Are they rated for no more than twenty pitches?

Gonna

Disposable income ? if you have then spend on,

Die

Waiting on a response from the warranty department?
the warranty department is one person answering a set number of complaints a day.
One issue , one customer at a time.

Todd Anderson wrote:Okay, I looked at my tools and got some photos. The head/shaft junction on one tool looks a bit off, which I think is causing the misalignment in that tool. The other tool seems fine. You definitely notice the misalignment looking at the tool during the swing, but I'm not sure if it affects performance. Yes, my landlord has a strange garden.
And for that is holey, put some pantz on your landlords Buhda!
If It is red it should be at the front door, just feung shwaying;)
Todd Anderson · · Seattle, WA · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 145
mario molina wrote:years ago Grivel made tools with tilted heads, I believe the idea was for the tools to cam once placed.
Did they work? Seems like a great way to displace a lot of ice....
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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