Why so many pictures of the same climbers? New Wasatch Guidebook


Original Post
WillyG · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 0

So howdy friends.

I have a pressing question about our new guidebook. While I am totally grateful for the guide book. It seems quite bias. I mean there are 15 plus pictures of Shingo O?? Even more of Pete V? Yes these 2 guys have contributed a ton to the Wasatch, but so have others.

Is there a love obsession between the photographer and these guys? Why not more diverse set of climbers?

There are hundreds of great climbers that are all native to Utah that have done amazing routes.

????? Posing question for thoughts?

Nothing against either of these climbers by the way, guess its just who you know. Like anything else. Its not what you do, Its who you know.

WillyG

Boissal · · Small Lake, UT · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 1,195
WillyG wrote:Like anything else. Its not what you do, Its who you know. WillyG
You answered your own question. They know the photographer, climb a ton, are available, it's going to be easier to generate material with these guys than anyone else. Plus they get after it and are willing to hike to and get on photogenic stuff. Guidebook photos are supposed to look great, not honor people who contributed to the local crag.
You should look at the new West Desert guidebook if you want more pics of Pete V...
will ar · · San Antonio, TX · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 215

Not familiar with the guidebook, but guessing it has something to do with availability of photos. People are more likely to take photos of friends/regular climbing partners. I view the purpose of a guidebook to document and provide info on climbs, not include non-beta photos of a representative collection of local climbers. If the author had decided not to include quality routes established by people outside his group of friends that might be different.

bheller · · SL UT · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 923

Yeah, the photographer(s) wanted pics of you and your friends but you never showed up...that and there's obviously a thinly veiled man-love obsession occurring in our sacred range...gasp!

WillyG · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 0
Boissal wrote: You answered your own question. They know the photographer, climb a ton, are available, it's going to be easier to generate material with these guys than anyone else. Plus they get after it and are willing to hike to and get on photogenic stuff. Guidebook photos are supposed to look great, not honor people who contributed to the local crag. You should look at the new West Desert guidebook if you want more pics of Pete V...
But how about the other climbers that also work there asses off putting up new routes? Don't they deserve a little credit too? I mean the book should be called the "Photo Album of Shingo"? And also why does all the photos look like Little Cottonwood is so damn steep? This is not how little cottonwood looks?
WillyG · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 0
bheller wrote:Yeah, the photographer(s) wanted pics of you and your friends but you never showed up...that and there's obviously a thinly veiled man-love obsession occurring in our sacred range...gasp!
There were photo submitted. Just never used

Anyway. Like I said. Nothing against the Climbers. Both great guys. Just seems bias. Thats all
Alex Bury · · Ojai, CA · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 1,873

It happens with all guidebooks, to one degree or another. If you've ever been involved in one being made, then you've seen the process.
Guidebooks are a big deal in the community, so it follows that authors might support and promote their friends with it.

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 0
WillyG wrote:So howdy friends. I have a pressing question about our new guidebook. While I am totally grateful for the guide book. It seems quite bias. I mean there are 15 plus pictures of Shingo O?? Even more of Pete V? Yes these 2 guys have contributed a ton to the Wasatch, but so have others. Is there a love obsession between the photographer and these guys? Why not more diverse set of climbers? There are hundreds of great climbers that are all native to Utah that have done amazing routes. ????? Posing question for thoughts? Nothing against either of these climbers by the way, guess its just who you know. Like anything else. Its not what you do, Its who you know. WillyG
Wait.
This is a concern???
Lou Hibbard · · Eagan, MN · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 225

A slightly different topic but what bugs me about guidebook photos is how the publishers apparently like photos of people not wearing helmets.
Some guidebooks show almost exclusively people with no helmets - even people I know who usually wear helmets perhaps lowered their standards so they could get in a guidebook.
Conflict of interest.

Boissal · · Small Lake, UT · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 1,195
WillyG wrote:But how about the other climbers that also work there asses off putting up new routes? Don't they deserve a little credit too? I mean the book should be called the "Photo Album of Shingo"?
Credit is given to the FA in the description of the route, something that's been the standard for, oh, ever? I can't imagine the efforts involved in getting pictures of the first ascensionists sending their own routes. Not to mention the fact that most of these guys don't work their asses off to get a pic of themselves in a book...

WillyG wrote:And also why does all the photos look like Little Cottonwood is so damn steep? This is not how little cottonwood looks?
Completely agree with you on that. The fisheye lens seems to be Burr's trademark but it can produce really weird images of slabby granite. I especially like the pic of the Zion Curtain, a renowned lieback flake which has to be at least slightly overhanging and probably 11- ... I just don't understand how gravity works up there, draws and cams hang at a really weird angle from the leader's harness.

Regardless, the book is awesome along with all of the pics.
bheller · · SL UT · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 923

Fair enough- from here on I'll refer to the book as the shingo photo album

JimG · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 0
WillyG wrote:our new guidebook
You were always free to put together a Wasatch guide in whatever manner you felt was appropriate. You still are, for that matter.
Scott Morris · · Bountiful, Utah · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 280

Bias or not, anyone willing to invest the huge amount of time and effort required to put together a guidebook is more than entitled to hand pick the photos they like best. Compared to other guidebooks I own, this one includes the greatest number and the greatest variety of action photos. I'm a big fan of it.

BigNobody · · all over, mostly Utah · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 0
JimG wrote: You were always free to put together a Wasatch guide in whatever manner you felt was appropriate. You still are, for that matter.
I have a feeling he did. And nobody bought it or made fun of it, calling it only worthy to level coffee tables. Nice sign up date Willy G...errrr TC

WillyG wrote: There were photo submitted. Just never used Anyway. Like I said. Nothing against the Climbers. Both great guys. Just seems bias. Thats all
For posterity ^^^^
Boissal · · Small Lake, UT · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 1,195
WillyG wrote: There were photo submitted. Just never used
Did you submit shitty cell phone butt shots that didn't make the cut? One of the authors is a renowned pro photographer, the bar is pretty high. I'm sure your shots would have been included if they were good enough...
Brian in SLC · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Oct 2003 · Points: 12,639
Boissal wrote: Did you submit shitty cell phone butt shots that didn't make the cut? One of the authors is a renowned pro photographer, the bar is pretty high. I'm sure your shots would have been included if they were good enough...
You know, that's going to hurt Burr's feelings...(ha ha!).

Yeah, Nate and Andrew take photo's of folks climbing. No mystery that they end up in a guidebook.

When you consider the immense (IMMENSE) effort of putting together information, FA history, route photo's, topo's, etc, that they dipped into their own personal stash of awesome photo's is no big surprise.

And, to boot, there's a fair amount of historical photo's too.

But, the gem of all this, is, the book shall now be called "Shingo's Photo Album". Kill Bill!
Boissal · · Small Lake, UT · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 1,195
Brian in SLC wrote: You know, that's going to hurt Burr's feelings...(ha ha!). Yeah, Nate and Andrew take photo's of folks climbing. No mystery that they end up in a guidebook.
Edit per Brian: another one of the authors is pretty good at takings pics too.
TP though, that dude's a hack :) He has iPhone pics of me shredding some forgotten Caldeboner route he made me repeat and he didn't even put them in the guidebook. REFUND!!!

Brian in SLC wrote: the book shall now be called "Shingo's Photo Album". Kill Bill!
I'm gonna photochop myself an alternate cover tonight.
Kauait · · Sandy Utah · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 0

I would have paid dbl the price for a book that didnt have so many pics. That thing is heavy on the photos..
Great book! And thanks for all the work!
And yes I'm planning on buying another just to keep an original and cut all the unnecessary pics out of the other..

Crag Turkey · · Holladay, UT · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 60

I had a dang good shot of me TRing hoffa finger that went neglected, such favoritism. Guess I will need to refer to it as the Shingo photo album as well, probably better than the granite guide anyways. I don't think I've seen a guidebook that dedicates so many pages to historical ascents and even includes several entries from early/prolific Wasatch climbers. There are some great stories and photos in there that couldn't have been easy to find or compile, definitely worth the read. It's easy to find issues with any guidebook, but I think the photos are representative for the area and it's history.

Ken H · · Granite, UT · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 3,940

Snatch up your copies! This is how things never get printed again. Amazing book, I still haven't digested all the information in there. Speaking of a one run publish, I might have go pickup a second copy and chain it to my bookshelf all Game of Throne's Citadel style.

Any chance someone has found a bible cover which fits this perfect?

BrokenChairs · · Seattle · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 182

Shouldn't we be more grateful for the great beta content then worry about who is in the photos? I could complain about all the ads but really who cares? (I spoke with the wife of one of the Ruckman brothers and she informed me that the brothers did the math and earned 27 cents an hour for the work that went into the original book.) My point being why find reasons to nit pick someone else's hard work and commitment just be grateful for what was done.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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