Why is "my" area being needlessly edited by an admin?


Original Post
Ryan Nevius · · Estes Park, Colorado · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 904

I recently added this area to the site. For some reason, one of the admins keeps editing this area to add a left-to-right route listing to the main area page.

I've been deleting this info, as it adds needless clutter to the page. Most of the info contained in this section is already in the sidebar. Furthermore, the route grades listed in this section are likely to become inaccurate as "consensus" grades kick in (since this info would have to be manually edited). Unfortunately, as of this morning, a new "locked" section has been added which I am unable to edit/delete.

Is there anything we, as contributors, can do to prevent admins from adding pointless sections like this to our contributions (and locking them)? I've contributed for years to this site, and have never experienced this before. It's really not that big of a deal...but thought I'd ask.

Duplicate info added...why?

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 275

Have you written the two administrators to ask them about it?

Ryan Nevius · · Estes Park, Colorado · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 904

Yes, and this post wasn't to call anyone out. This post was more of a general inquiry into whether or not there's anything else we, as contributors, can do.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 275
Ryan Nevius wrote:Yes, and this post wasn't to call anyone out. This post was more of a general inquiry into whether or not there's anything else we, as contributors, can do.
I wasn't suggesting you "called them out." Did you not get a satisfactory answer from the admins? They must have had a reason for the editing (I'd hope).

Anyway, I was just curious.
Ron Birk · · Boston, MA · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 3,467

I have seen this pointless route list on the main description in Mass areas too. Always wondered what's the point of it. It's redundant, takes space and continuously needs manual synchronization. Many times it's not up to date.

The only time I have seen it useful is where the list contains routes that are not written up yet. That way you do have an idea that there are more routes in that area, where they are and their grade (for example).

That brings up a question I have. What is the appropriate way to add a route that you don't have much info about? Add it anyway, add it to the area description or do nothing at all? I created a separate thread for this question so use it for this side issue: mountainproject.com/v/route...

Micah Klesick · · Vancouver, WA · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 3,894

I'm not quite sure what they are getting at by doing the duplicate info. I know that was more common before L-R was established in the main route list, so maybe old habits? However, speaking to the issue of us admins editing areas.... I know for the areas I edit and manage, there is a certain flow and style that is used across most, if not all the areas, so I'll sometimes edit an area in order to keep the ease of use in comparison to the other local areas. Or it's an area I know really well, and I think it should be laid out in a certain way. But I do try to let the OP know my reasons.
Don't be too hard on them, we actually end up doing a lot of work on areas and routes some weeks and it can be hard to keep track of what we've done and who we've contacted.

Ryan Nevius · · Estes Park, Colorado · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 904
J Marsella wrote:As to clutter on the page: it's a source of information not a design project.
It's absolutely about UX. The whole point of creating a website like this is to present information in an easily-digestible format. "If you don't like it, hide it" is way outdated thinking in the web sphere.
rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 525

I'm not an admin, but the more or less obvious explanation is that they want to maintain a consistent route description layout across the entire site and that left panel is part of that generic layout. That panel is an intrinsic design ingredient of the site, which understandably wants to keep contributors from designing their own variations. It is a bit of overkill for a minor area with six climbs (two of which are "unknown,"), but that's what happens when you standardize.

What you should be doing is to recognize that the panel is going to be there and set up the rest of your information in a way that doesn't explicitly replicate the panel while adding something (a brief comment on the nature of the climbing?) to the name, grade, and stars.

aikibujin · · Castle Rock, CO · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 290

The "extra" list shows up when you print the area out on paper (the little printer icon near the top right corner on every area), the sidebar does not get printed. So for those of us that still use a flip phone and cannot download the fancy MP app, the extra list is pretty nice because it gives an overview of the routes contained in an area.

Ron Birk · · Boston, MA · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 3,467

One small comment about admins changing ones routes. I had admins ask me if it was okay to do some edits. I always tell them to go ahead. It was nice to be asked and also why they wanted to edit. That would have been nice in Ryan's case, so he know it was coming and why. Now it turned into a fight with locked sections.

I also had an admin change the ownership of one of "my" routes to another more knowledgeable user. I thought that was perfectly fine. I enter routes to share, not to be an owner.

Ryan Nevius · · Estes Park, Colorado · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 904
aikibujin wrote:The "extra" list shows up when you print the area out on paper (the little printer icon near the top right corner on every area), the sidebar does not get printed. So for those of us that still use a flip phone and cannot download the fancy MP app, the extra list is pretty nice because it gives an overview of the routes contained in an area.
I can understand things from this point of view. However, in this area's case, there are very straightforward area-overview photos with route lines that clearly show all routes, and routes are printed L→R when using the "print" tool.
Michael Schneider · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 735

Your choice is not to contribute.

My post was moderated?

Really? I'll try again latter

Alexander Blum · · Charlotte, NC · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 143
rgold wrote:I'm not an admin, but the more or less obvious explanation is that they want to maintain a consistent route description layout across the entire site and that left panel is part of that generic layout. That panel is an intrinsic design ingredient of the site, which understandably wants to keep contributors from designing their own variations. It is a bit of overkill for a minor area with six climbs (two of which are "unknown,"), but that's what happens when you standardize. What you should be doing is to recognize that the panel is going to be there and set up the rest of your information in a way that doesn't explicitly replicate the panel while adding something (a brief comment on the nature of the climbing?) to the name, grade, and stars.
Maybe I am misreading his lament, but I don't think this is what Ryan is complaining about. He is complaining about the L>>R information that has been added on the main page by the Admin, not the panel on the left. If done this way, consistency across the site is impossible for reasons Ryan stated in his original post. Apolgoies if I am reading this wrong!
Ron Birk · · Boston, MA · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 3,467
Alexander Blum wrote: Maybe I am misreading his lament, but I don't think this is what Ryan is complaining about. He is complaining about the L>>R information that has been added on the main page by the Admin, not the panel on the left. If done this way, consistency across the site is impossible for reasons Ryan stated in his original post. Apolgoies if I am reading this wrong!
That is the main issue on this thread. The duplicated and many times unneeded info. It already exists on the left panel.

And also that an admin went ahead and changed it without notifying the route owner or explaining it. A conversation beforehand between them would have (hopefully) prevented the fight that later turned out with locked sections and all.

I am lucky that I had good experience with admins notifying me ahead of time of changes they want to do.
Addem Bursh · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 845

the snorezzzzzzz are strong with this thread

Leo Paik · · Westminster, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 22,800

Ryan and others, I'm the one who did these 2 edits on this said page. I apologize for not writing you about this. I understand your perspective. FWIW, this has been a tight time schedule for me around these 2 edits. One issue was I had to drive out my middle daughter to college in CA across the desert between these 2 edits. I saw you had edited out the info. I copied and pasted it into a new text box and didn't reassign it to you until I had a chance to discuss it with you. Once I found out you had an issue, I emailed you directly with my home number & email address to discuss the various factors on why some if not many of the MP.com users like these. I didn't hear from you...until today when you emailed me that it wasn't that big of a deal.

These L->R: lists have been quite helpful to some folks. I've seen many a climber out there with these L->R: lists out there at the crags. Various platforms support different aspects of the database better than others. T-Mobile & Cricket are rated some of the worst, and CO is rated apparently the worst place for wireless offering hit or miss reception out at the crags. This was an attempt to help the general user more than the individual submitter, you Ryan, who already knows the routes. BTW, there are more routes at this crag, for which I haven't had a chance to get to old notes to see where they are relative to the submitted ones. It's an area that was fun to take the kids out to climb when they were younger.

Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 23,225

For my own part, I have seen such LtoR lists that include routes that are not ON MP.com so that way they can appear on the 'list' under area even if not in the route index, and that is particularly useful for sport crags with tightly packed route lines and not many pictures... then you can walk from one side to the otehr an know what is what, even if the route was not formally 'entered.'

So to me, that's useful.

Much more useful, in areas like Bocan, are the crag listings from bottom to top, etc that are non-alpebetical, so you can find one crag relative to others without looking them all up. That is really nice to have.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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