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Response to Flash Foxy & Outside Magazine Article


Original Post
Dan Evans · · Phoenix, AZ · Joined Mar 2013 · Points: 85

Open letter to Flash Foxy (and Outside Magazine):

I am writing this in response to your most recent article published by Outside Magazine titled, “How Gender Affects Your Experience at the Climbing Gym” (which you can read here), as I believe that your findings were bias and inaccurately represented the climbing community as a whole. Inherently, sexism exists everywhere throughout our daily lives because unfortunately that is just the way our planet is. However, I feel as though the climbing community in particular has made substantial progress in the right direction regarding gender equality over the years in spite of the many stereotypes that threaten to hold us back. Though when these issues do arise and are unfairly mislabeled or blown out of proportion, we risk further setbacks in terms of much needed forward progress. That been said, here are the issues I see with your article and survey:

#1: Your survey is not credible.

Quite possibly the biggest issue here is the manner in which your survey was conducted:

1.) You conducted a survey to represent the entire climbing community yet you are an organization whose target audience is comprised of female climbers, therefore the pool from which your respondents originated was female dominated. Which probably explains my next point.

2.) Your sample sizes from each population were substantially different, with the male climber population 1/3 that of the female sample. Of 1,512 people surveyed, approximately 1038 of them were female.

3.) Finally and most importantly, members from both your samples were all volunteer-selected and therefore yielded a blatant bias in your overall findings.

Voluntary Response Sampling – Voluntary response sampling is heavily biased because it focuses on volunteered survey answers rather than a random sampling. What makes this biased is because the only people who volunteer are those who have a particular interest in the topic of the survey. For example, if the survey is about feelings surrounding a particular religion, only those who feel strongly about it volunteer. This means that the resulting samples have two extreme sides with few or no middle-of-the-road responses to mellow out the results. This results in a sample that is not representative of the population. The bias often skews negative, as well.

Voluntary response sampling is useful for supporting a biased stance. For instance, if a website is anti-war and puts out a poll to its users, its users are also likely to be anti-war. The results of the poll, then, would have an anti-war view point, which the website can then cite as evidence that a population supports their views. In this way, voluntary response sampling can help research that has an agenda. (Reference)


With these facts considered, it should come as an embarrassment for any self-respecting establishment to acknowledge or share your findings as even remotely credible.

#2: Behaviors you listed as “microaggressions”, sexual harassment, or gender discrimination, are none of the above.

In your article, unwanted staring, advice, and flirtation are listed as supposed “microaggressions” which according to your article (and Oxford Dictionary) is defined as,

“A statement, action, or incident regarded as an instance of indirect, subtle, or unintentional discrimination against members of a marginalized group such as a racial or ethnic minority.”

I’m not quite sure you really understand the term correctly. Key word being “discrimination” here.

Paragraph II – “We gathered data on the correlation between gender and microaggressions, such as unwanted staring and advice…”

Paragraph IV (Acknowledge the Problem) – “In other words, just because most women don’t experience blatant, aggressive sexual harassment at their climbing gyms, doesn’t mean it’s not there in the form of condescension or unwanted flirtation.”


I must have missed the memo when harmless staring and flirtation became classified as gender discrimination or constituted sexual harassment. I feel like it should be common knowledge that frequent glances and/or attempts to engage in conversation are completely normal behavior associated with human attraction. To argue otherwise or present the notion that this behavior is specific to cases of male-to-female attraction is ludicrous. You can write as many articles as you want regarding the topic, but at the end of the day it is how we as humans are biologically wired and it will never go away. Obviously if the flirtation turns into actual sexual harassment, then we are discussing something entirely different and it should be handled accordingly. I’ve listed the definition of sexual harassment below for you because again, I don’t think you quite understand what the term actually means when you casually toss it around in your writing.

Sexual harassment is defined as, “Harassment (typically of a woman) in a workplace, or other professional or social situation, involving the making of unwanted sexual advances or obscene remarks.”

I’m sorry but you don’t get to reclassify harmless flirtation as sexual harassment just so it fits your narrative.

In regards to unwanted beta or advice, this too ties in with flirtation. Let’s look at a common scenario. We’ve already established that there is a single male climber who is physically attracted to a female climber in the gym. Logically the next step within societal norms would be for the man to try and talk to the female climber in hopes of making a connection. Seeing as you are in a climbing gym, it should not come as a total surprise when said male climber attempts to talk about a route with you or give you beta. Poor taste? Annoying? Unwanted? Maybe, but still irrelevant to the topic of gender discrimination. Whether or not you wanted the attention to begin with, his intentions and method of delivery are not necessarily sexist in nature and assuming otherwise is simply childish. Not all men approach talking to women the same nor do we always pick up the “I’m not interested” cues that are being laid out for us. Maybe it’s time we start giving each other the benefit of the doubt before assuming the worst.

#3: The tone of your article demonizes male climbers and frankly deters many in the community from wanting to get involved.

As a community our goal should be to attract both male and female climbers to engage in sensible dialogue regarding what is acceptable and what is not when a problem such as this one arises. However from the beginning, your article basically demonizes male climbers and does nothing to make us inclined to stand behind your movement in any way.

“It happens all the time. Someone assumes you’re waiting to climb an easy route. Someone sprays you down with bad beta while staring at your sports bra. Someone assumes your belay buddy is your boyfriend—who also taught you how to climb. And this someone, in my experience, is almost always a guy.”

Secondly, the situations you describe here are not only extremely petty in retrospect to real issues plaguing our gyms currently, but they actually sound like poor assumptions made on your behalf more than anything. Should I go write an article on how many men receive unwanted stares while their genitals are being cinched between their leg loops? No because that would be ridiculous, right? Quick fact of life whether you necessarily like it or not – if you choose to wear revealing clothing, expect others to look. If you don’t like the attention, then wear something different. I am not saying that it is okay for men to be staring down a woman’s sports bra “because it’s how were wired”, I am just saying to have realistic expectations when you pick out your attire. Furthermore, if a man is attracted to a woman in a gym, is it not reasonable for said man to think that your male belayer could also be your boyfriend? I’m confused as to how this is interpreted as sexist in nature?

#4: Actual incidents of gender discrimination and abuse are far and few between across the climbing community as a whole, yet your article conveys a different message.

In the five years I’ve been climbing both in the gym and outdoors, I have yet to witness an actual incident of real physical or verbal abuse that was gender driven. Now this isn’t to say that it does not occur nor am I dismissing the issue, but I feel as though had this actually been a rampant issue within our community like your article would like to have us believe, I would have witnessed something remotely close to what you have described somewhere along the way at least once. After your article surfaced, I messaged a female friend of mine to gain the female perspective and to see how often she experiences incidents like these. While she did say that she had in fact received condescending comments from men in the past while at the gym, she also said it was not a common occurrence because, “the men she regularly climbs with do not think that way of women.” Which is honestly the answer I expected.

So does it happen? Yes. I have no doubt in my mind that somewhere out there in the midst of our climbing community lies the resident douchebags who think “you are pretty strong for a girl.” However the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of us are extremely supportive of female climbers and want nothing more for them to push the limits alongside their male counter-parts. Personally, there are women I climb with regularly who are incredibly strong climbers and consistently climb harder than me to which I simply say, “Bad ass! Crush it.” On the other hand, I have also climbed with women who are not as strong or more timid in certain aspects, but it is because they are less experienced, not because they are females. So when I am climbing with them I act in the same manner I would with anyone else at a similar experience level. If my words of encouragement or “bad beta” come across as condescending due to our gender differences, that is simply based off your poor assumption, not my intentions as a mentor or friend. In this case, a simple conversation between two mature adults would quickly resolve any misunderstanding that may have presented itself.

Summary

In closing, I could sit here and give a step-by-step breakdown of what guys should or should not do, but I’m not going to insult anyone’s intelligence because in reality most of us are already doing the right thing. The guys who are making derogatory comments or thanking you for sending their project while they shake their head in shame are most likely just as big of a tool outside the climbing gym as they are inside. No one article or public announcement is ever going to change that kind of thinking from such a weak-minded individual.

Let the key takeaway here though be that many of the issues you described in your article are derived from normal human behavior that will never go away no matter how many nasty grams you write for the male population – so learning adequate ways to handle them appropriately is the obvious answer here, not “safe spaces” because they don’t exist. For incidents of actual physical or verbal abuse (regardless of gender), these situations should be dealt with no differently inside the gym than they are currently dealt with outside the gym. This is obviously not acceptable in any way, shape, or form and should not be tolerated by anyone. If this is happening at your gym on a regular basis, you probably need to alert the staff or switch gyms because it is not “the norm” and it is most certainly not welcome in the community.

Obviously I am 110% supportive of anything that empowers our female climbers and creates a healthier environment for all, but we just need to approach it in a sensible manner. I hope that this letter has shed some new light on various issues from one male climber’s perspective and will attract further healthy two-way dialogue regarding the issue among those in our community.

Sincerely,

Dan Evans

Em Cos · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 5

Oh boy. The survey is certainly not perfect, but they are straightforward about their sample size and sampling technique. They did not say "this represents how every climber feels everywhere", they said these were the results based on N survey respondents, etc. People can draw their own conclusions about the significance of such a survey given these limitations. Still, the sample size is certainly more robust then the N=1 of personal anecdotal data you're presenting here:

Daniel Evans wrote: ... I feel as though the climbing community in particular has made substantial progress in the right direction regarding gender equality over the years ...
There is a way to say "this has not been my personal experience" without saying "you are wrong about what you're describing as your personal experience".

Some women say they felt/feel uncomfortable in the climbing gym environment. Saying to a woman who feels harassed that actually what is going on does not meet the dictionary definition of harassment or aggression or that you or your sister or your 72 female best friends wouldn't feel harassed in that same situation is not going to change the fact that she feels harassed. Take that information for whatever it is worth to you. If the answer to that is "nothing", that's ok too.
Rick Blair · · Denver · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 268

Wow, this is incredible! "Microaggression" has made it into the dictionary. We are doomed.

Dan Evans · · Phoenix, AZ · Joined Mar 2013 · Points: 85
Rick Blair wrote:Wow, this is incredible! "Microaggression" has made it into the dictionary. We are doomed.
It was pretty painful to include in my response. Hence why it is in quotation marks throughout.
Addem Bursh · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 855

Dude.

Your personal experiences don't matter.

Only OTHER peoples' personal experiences matter.

Get it?

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65

Two points:
1: OP is reproduced below to capture for history and avoid it being edited
2: The OP seems offended and very defensive. Reminder: you don't get to tell others what they are feeling.

Daniel Evans wrote:Open letter to Flash Foxy (and Outside Magazine): I am writing this in response to your most recent article published by Outside Magazine titled, “How Gender Affects Your Experience at the Climbing Gym” (which you can read here), as I believe that your findings were bias and inaccurately represented the climbing community as a whole. Inherently, sexism exists everywhere throughout our daily lives because unfortunately that is just the way our planet is. However, I feel as though the climbing community in particular has made substantial progress in the right direction regarding gender equality over the years in spite of the many stereotypes that threaten to hold us back. Though when these issues do arise and are unfairly mislabeled or blown out of proportion, we risk further setbacks in terms of much needed forward progress. That been said, here are the issues I see with your article and survey: #1: Your survey is not credible. Quite possibly the biggest issue here is the manner in which your survey was conducted: 1.) You conducted a survey to represent the entire climbing community yet you are an organization whose target audience is comprised of female climbers, therefore the pool from which your respondents originated was female dominated. Which probably explains my next point. 2.) Your sample sizes from each population were substantially different, with the male climber population 1/3 that of the female sample. Of 1,512 people surveyed, approximately 1038 of them were female. 3.) Finally and most importantly, members from both your samples were all volunteer-selected and therefore yielded a blatant bias in your overall findings. Voluntary Response Sampling – Voluntary response sampling is heavily biased because it focuses on volunteered survey answers rather than a random sampling. What makes this biased is because the only people who volunteer are those who have a particular interest in the topic of the survey. For example, if the survey is about feelings surrounding a particular religion, only those who feel strongly about it volunteer. This means that the resulting samples have two extreme sides with few or no middle-of-the-road responses to mellow out the results. This results in a sample that is not representative of the population. The bias often skews negative, as well. Voluntary response sampling is useful for supporting a biased stance. For instance, if a website is anti-war and puts out a poll to its users, its users are also likely to be anti-war. The results of the poll, then, would have an anti-war view point, which the website can then cite as evidence that a population supports their views. In this way, voluntary response sampling can help research that has an agenda. (Reference) With these facts considered, it should come as an embarrassment for any self-respecting establishment to acknowledge or share your findings as even remotely credible. #2: Behaviors you listed as “microaggressions”, sexual harassment, or gender discrimination, are none of the above. In your article, unwanted staring, advice, and flirtation are listed as supposed “microaggressions” which according to your article (and Oxford Dictionary) is defined as, “A statement, action, or incident regarded as an instance of indirect, subtle, or unintentional discrimination against members of a marginalized group such as a racial or ethnic minority.” I’m not quite sure you really understand the term correctly. Key word being “discrimination” here. Paragraph II – “We gathered data on the correlation between gender and microaggressions, such as unwanted staring and advice…” Paragraph IV (Acknowledge the Problem) – “In other words, just because most women don’t experience blatant, aggressive sexual harassment at their climbing gyms, doesn’t mean it’s not there in the form of condescension or unwanted flirtation.” I must have missed the memo when harmless staring and flirtation became classified as gender discrimination or constituted sexual harassment. I feel like it should be common knowledge that frequent glances and/or attempts to engage in conversation are completely normal behavior associated with human attraction. To argue otherwise or present the notion that this behavior is specific to cases of male-to-female attraction is ludicrous. You can write as many articles as you want regarding the topic, but at the end of the day it is how we as humans are biologically wired and it will never go away. Obviously if the flirtation turns into actual sexual harassment, then we are discussing something entirely different and it should be handled accordingly. I’ve listed the definition of sexual harassment below for you because again, I don’t think you quite understand what the term actually means when you casually toss it around in your writing. Sexual harassment is defined as, “Harassment (typically of a woman) in a workplace, or other professional or social situation, involving the making of unwanted sexual advances or obscene remarks.” I’m sorry but you don’t get to reclassify harmless flirtation as sexual harassment just so it fits your narrative. In regards to unwanted beta or advice, this too ties in with flirtation. Let’s look at a common scenario. We’ve already established that there is a single male climber who is physically attracted to a female climber in the gym. Logically the next step within societal norms would be for the man to try and talk to the female climber in hopes of making a connection. Seeing as you are in a climbing gym, it should not come as a total surprise when said male climber attempts to talk about a route with you or give you beta. Poor taste? Annoying? Unwanted? Maybe, but still irrelevant to the topic of gender discrimination. Whether or not you wanted the attention to begin with, his intentions and method of delivery are not necessarily sexist in nature and assuming otherwise is simply childish. Not all men approach talking to women the same nor do we always pick up the “I’m not interested” cues that are being laid out for us. Maybe it’s time we start giving each other the benefit of the doubt before assuming the worst. #3: The tone of your article demonizes male climbers and frankly deters many in the community from wanting to get involved. As a community our goal should be to attract both male and female climbers to engage in sensible dialogue regarding what is acceptable and what is not when a problem such as this one arises. However from the beginning, your article basically demonizes male climbers and does nothing to make us inclined to stand behind your movement in any way. “It happens all the time. Someone assumes you’re waiting to climb an easy route. Someone sprays you down with bad beta while staring at your sports bra. Someone assumes your belay buddy is your boyfriend—who also taught you how to climb. And this someone, in my experience, is almost always a guy.” Secondly, the situations you describe here are not only extremely petty in retrospect to real issues plaguing our gyms currently, but they actually sound like poor assumptions made on your behalf more than anything. Should I go write an article on how many men receive unwanted stares while their genitals are being cinched between their leg loops? No because that would be ridiculous, right? Quick fact of life whether you necessarily like it or not – if you choose to wear revealing clothing, expect others to look. If you don’t like the attention, then wear something different. I am not saying that it is okay for men to be staring down a woman’s sports bra “because it’s how were wired”, I am just saying to have realistic expectations when you pick out your attire. Furthermore, if a man is attracted to a woman in a gym, is it not reasonable for said man to think that your male belayer could also be your boyfriend? I’m confused as to how this is interpreted as sexist in nature? #4: Actual incidents of gender discrimination and abuse are far and few between across the climbing community as a whole, yet your article conveys a different message. In the five years I’ve been climbing both in the gym and outdoors, I have yet to witness an actual incident of real physical or verbal abuse that was gender driven. Now this isn’t to say that it does not occur nor am I dismissing the issue, but I feel as though had this actually been a rampant issue within our community like your article would like to have us believe, I would have witnessed something remotely close to what you have described somewhere along the way at least once. After your article surfaced, I messaged a female friend of mine to gain the female perspective and to see how often she experiences incidents like these. While she did say that she had in fact received condescending comments from men in the past while at the gym, she also said it was not a common occurrence because, “the men she regularly climbs with do not think that way of women.” Which is honestly the answer I expected. So does it happen? Yes. I have no doubt in my mind that somewhere out there in the midst of our climbing community lies the resident douchebags who think “you are pretty strong for a girl.” However the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of us are extremely supportive of female climbers and want nothing more for them to push the limits alongside their male counter-parts. Personally, there are women I climb with regularly who are incredibly strong climbers and consistently climb harder than me to which I simply say, “Bad ass! Crush it.” On the other hand, I have also climbed with women who are not as strong or more timid in certain aspects, but it is because they are less experienced, not because they are females. So when I am climbing with them I act in the same manner I would with anyone else at a similar experience level. If my words of encouragement or “bad beta” come across as condescending due to our gender differences, that is simply based off your poor assumption, not my intentions as a mentor or friend. In this case, a simple conversation between two mature adults would quickly resolve any misunderstanding that may have presented itself. Summary In closing, I could sit here and give a step-by-step breakdown of what guys should or should not do, but I’m not going to insult anyone’s intelligence because in reality most of us are already doing the right thing. The guys who are making derogatory comments or thanking you for sending their project while they shake their head in shame are most likely just as big of a tool outside the climbing gym as they are inside. No one article or public announcement is ever going to change that kind of thinking from such a weak-minded individual. Let the key takeaway here though be that many of the issues you described in your article are derived from normal human behavior that will never go away no matter how many nasty grams you write for the male population – so learning adequate ways to handle them appropriately is the obvious answer here, not “safe spaces” because they don’t exist. For incidents of actual physical or verbal abuse (regardless of gender), these situations should be dealt with no differently inside the gym than they are currently dealt with outside the gym. This is obviously not acceptable in any way, shape, or form and should not be tolerated by anyone. If this is happening at your gym on a regular basis, you probably need to alert the staff or switch gyms because it is not “the norm” and it is most certainly not welcome in the community. Obviously I am 110% supportive of anything that empowers our female climbers and creates a healthier environment for all, but we just need to approach it in a sensible manner. I hope that this letter has shed some new light on various issues from one male climber’s perspective and will attract further healthy two-way dialogue regarding the issue among those in our community. Sincerely, Dan Evans
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Rick Blair wrote:Wow, this is incredible! "Microaggression" has made it into the dictionary. We are doomed.
It's hardly a new term.

From wikipedia:
Microaggression is a term coined by psychiatrist and Harvard University professor Chester M. Pierce in 1970 to describe insults and dismissals he regularly witnessed non-black Americans inflict on African Americans. In 1973, MIT economist Mary Rowe extended the term to include similar aggressions directed at women, and those of different abilities, religions, and other socially marginalized groups. Eventually, the term came to encompass the casual degradation of any socially marginalized group, such as the poor and the disabled.
LccClimber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 20

Seems an organization crying sexism could pick a better name than Flash Foxy.

Antonio Caligiuri · · Bishop, CA · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 83

lol at white males

Jacob Smith · · Seattle, WA · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 230

Although you make some valid points regarding the voluntary nature of the survey, this "open letter" quickly veers into the realm of "if I haven't noticed it, it doesn't exist." Now, I have actually seen blatant sexual harassment of a female climber at a climbing area, but that's beside the point. Unless you have a better survey you want to cite, your intuitive sense of how often women are getting harassed it basically meaningless.
I'm not going to go through your essay point by point but a lot of what you cite as normal human behavior just betrays your ignorance of changing sexual norms. There was a time when it was considered acceptable for men to approach random women in everyday life that they find attractive and attempt to converse with them for no other reason than that they find them attractive. This is no longer the case. If you want to find women to flirt with, there are about 100 dating websites created for that exact reason, climbing gyms are for climbing and men need to learn that the random women they come across are not acceptable targets for their sexual advances merely by virtue of their being in a public space.

caughtinside · · Oakland CA · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 1,470

I think my comment on the original Outside article would be this:

My non scientific, but based on what I've seen, guess is that at least 50% of people in a climbing gym have been climbing less than 2 years. So my take is that gyms today represent society as a whole. There is a core element, where I think there is less of the reported unwelcome behavior, and a dabbler element which is there to have a good time and maybe meet people. Aside from the actual beta observations, I think the behavior reported in the survey reflects what you would find in a non-climbing, mixed gender gym.

I'd also add that in my 15 years climbing, the gym has always had a meat market feel, and that has definitely been a two way street. I have a non-scientific sample of 2 women I know who started going to the climbing gym to meet fit men and watch them climb shirtless.

It would have been an interesting question to include in the survey whether respondents had met people they have dated in the climbing gym.

Downtownt Kay · · Everett, WA · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 110
Jacob Smith wrote:Although you make some valid points regarding the voluntary nature of the survey, this "open letter" quickly veers into the realm of "if I haven't noticed it, it doesn't exist." Now, I have actually seen blatant sexual harassment of a female climber at a climbing area, but that's beside the point. Unless you have a better survey you want to cite, your intuitive sense of how often women are getting harassed it basically meaningless. I'm not going to go through your essay point by point but a lot of what you cite as normal human behavior just betrays your ignorance of changing sexual norms. There was a time when it was considered acceptable for men to approach random women in everyday life that they find attractive and attempt to converse with them for no other reason than that they find them attractive. This is no longer the case. If you want to find women to flirt with, there are about 100 dating websites created for that exact reason, climbing gyms are for climbing and men need to learn that the random women they come across are not acceptable targets for their sexual advances merely by virtue of their being in a public space.
JS, my feminist friend...how's that bu--- nevermind ;)

thanks for your words. I actually agree, OP made a few valid points, but the 'not all men' and 'i dont feel that way' attitude betray the fragility complex that so many of us wish we could go away.
If they arent talking about you, you wouldn't have a need to respond...(?) eh?

And honestly, 'harmless flirting' is a wildly subjective term. I actually personally enjoy flirting in the gym-usually. Until I don't. Then i make sure its clear im off to do my own thing...

Taking time out of your day to write all of that, enhances this feeling of defensive fragility we get from you. Just keep telling your lady-friend climbers to 'crush it,' its all good.
Downtownt Kay · · Everett, WA · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 110
caughtinside wrote:I think my comment on the original Outside article would be this: My non scientific, but based on what I've seen, guess is that at least 50% of people in a climbing gym have been climbing less than 2 years. So my take is that gyms today represent society as a whole. There is a core element, where I think there is less of the reported unwelcome behavior, and a dabbler element which is there to have a good time and maybe meet people. Aside from the actual beta observations, I think the behavior reported in the survey reflects what you would find in a non-climbing, mixed gender gym. I'd also add that in my 15 years climbing, the gym has always had a meat market feel, and that has definitely been a two way street. I have a non-scientific sample of 2 women I know who started going to the climbing gym to meet fit men and watch them climb shirtless. It would have been an interesting question to include in the survey whether respondents had met people they have dated in the climbing gym.
Also thoughts of mine, the newb thing, since the article mentions people being uncomfortable due to not knowing something...-they really should be asking then.

Sidenote: im a hyper sexualized person, love me some humans in general. And, i stare at dudes a lot too when i think they're attractive, or just really enjoy how they climb.
Some climbers are just poetry in motion, male or female.
Rich Brereton · · Pownal, ME · Joined May 2009 · Points: 140

Dan, wow dude, this was an epic piece of satire at the expense of anti-feminists. Bravo my friend. Had me laughing out loud. I'll just go ahead and upload the following to the "mansplaining" entry on Urban Dictionary: "Quick fact of life whether you necessarily like it or not – if you choose to wear revealing clothing, expect others to look."

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Tim Lutz wrote:Looking at booty shorts is a 'micro-aggression' LOLZ No one wears 2 ounces of fabric on their butt because they need to; it is because they want people to look. but if you do: micro-aggression you misogynist pig-fvcker! The title should be 'How Gender Affects Your Experience at the Gym' Try this 'study' at Planet Fitness, I'd love to see those numbers
https://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&pws=0&q=are+women+harassed+in+gyms
Downtownt Kay · · Everett, WA · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 110
Rich Brereton wrote:Dan, wow dude, this was an epic piece of satire at the expense of anti-feminists. Bravo my friend. Had me laughing out loud. I'll just go ahead and upload the following to the "mansplaining" entry on Urban Dictionary: "Quick fact of life whether you necessarily like it or not – if you choose to wear revealing clothing, expect others to look."
^yay! my hero. +1
Antonio Caligiuri · · Bishop, CA · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 83

The only constructive thing I'm going to attempt to add to this: sexually mature humans are often going to be attracted to one another and may even look at and attempt to engage one another in conversation or "flirting." Obviously men aren't just going to stop trying to flirt with women, and I really doubt that is what women are looking for. However, I do think that, as men, we need to realize that not all females are going to be attracted to us and that if she is not immediately welcoming to your flirting that doesn't mean she is just playing hard to get. A quick glance to check out a member of the opposite sex is pretty normal; persistent staring and flirting when it is clearly not being reciprocated is just a shitty thing to do to someone whether they are at the climbing gym or otherwise. By the way, Daniel Evans, if you're ever in Bishop and see me bouldering shirtless I expect you to be full on eye fucking the shit out of me because, frankly, that's the only reason I do it.

Rick Blair · · Denver · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 268
Marc801 wrote: It's hardly a new term. From wikipedia: Microaggression
Because some psychiatrist coined the term in 1970? And this to you is proof?

I am coining a new phrase, nanoaggression.
Downtownt Kay · · Everett, WA · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 110
Antonio Caligiuri wrote:The only constructive thing I'm going to attempt to add to this: sexually mature humans are often going to be attracted to one another and may even look at and attempt to engage one another in conversation or "flirting." Obviously men aren't just going to stop trying to flirt with women, and I really doubt that is what women are looking for. However, I do think that, as men, we need to realize that not all females are going to be attracted to us and that if she is not immediately welcoming to your flirting that doesn't mean she is just playing hard to get. A quick glance to check out a member of the opposite sex is pretty normal; persistent staring and flirting when it is clearly not being reciprocated is just a shitty thing to do to someone whether they are at the climbing gym or otherwise. By the way, Daniel Evans, if you're ever in Bishop and see me bouldering shirtless I expect you to be full on eye fucking the shit out of me because, frankly, that's the only reason I do it.
^^ this

i climb shirtless summertime alpine when i can cuz it feels damn good to be free in a way i never otherwise can in the real world.
Eric G. · · Saratoga Springs, NY · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 70
Marc801 wrote: The OP seems offended and very defensive. Reminder: you don't get to tell others what they are feeling.
I see what you did there.
Colonel Mustard · · Sacramento, CA · Joined Sep 2005 · Points: 1,180

At best, it seems like a misuse of the term microaggression. It reminds me of that climber who threw the sink on her blog at Pamela Shanti Pack for not being her pen pal or whatever.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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